Is it a right to have Kids you can’t afford!?!

[KN2212]

I am totally fed up of listening to people complain about how broke they are after having kids. Babies and childcare are cripplingly expensive but that’s pretty much common knowledge, right?

I fell out with a long term friend of mine about a year ago. Since the birth of her DD all she did was complain about the situation she’d orchestrated.
Her and her (now ex) partner had no home of their own, low income, high debt and no savings when they decided to go ahead and have a child (though granted had been together for 7 years). The poor boyfriend busted his butt working 13 hour shifts 6 days a week in a call centre whilst they all lived in one cramped room at her parents and she complained he wasn’t doing enough. Due to her crippling shopping debts and inability to hold a job they were never going to make enough to live and knew that pre getting pregnant.

(Other friends are in similar situations, complaining about how they ‘can’t afford to go back to work’ because of childcare costs but equally can’t afford to live if they don’t go back to work!!! Come on and take some responsibility you knew this was going to be your situation.)

Whilst she was complaining over coffee one day about how the benefit system wasn’t giving her enough free money I called her out on her obvious poor planning and asked why she didn’t wait and save pre child. She got very defensive and said that they were never going to be able to afford a child due to their financial situation so why bother waiting?

It just got me thinking really hard, since when did having children become a right? It seemed so clear to her that she deserved to have a child despite not being able to afford one and that the government should now support her because she deserved to have her daughter.
Am I wrong in thinking that having children you can’t support is completely irresponsible and shitty and entitled?

I know a lot of women who want kids but are having to wait and plan and save and do it ‘the right way’ it seems unfair to them. When women like my ex friend do exactly what they want without planning and then hold the government over a barrel saying that their kids don’t have food and clothes. It just sucks like the children shouldn’t have to suffer but the tax payer shouldn’t have to pay for your unfair choices.

To clarify I have empathy for unplanned pregnancy’s no contraception is 100% but that’s not the kind of situation I’m talking about here. I’m talking about planned pregnancies.

@BitchQueen90

I agree. I doubt that anyone claiming benefits illegally is running about telling everyone they know.
OP I agree to an extent. Anyone in your friends situation having a child is irresponsible but lots of people are low earners and always will be, I don't think they should be judged for making a decision to have children.

I agree the benefits system was too much. But it's a basic truth that some will always struggle to make enough money, even in this country. No matter how hard they work. In todays climate, there are many who do not earn enough for a myriad of reasons. Should they be denied children to love? They aren't all not fit to adopt a kitten you know.

It's a toughie, getting the balance right. Judging a lady who is living in one room with one child got my back up. She isn't exactly living in a situation to be envied, is she? I'd have a good moan in her boat too. Doesn't sound like she's exactly milking the system and for all you know, her baby is loved to the moon and back.

Truly poor people from developing countries have children , often many because children are seen as an asset that will eventually pay off. In this country we see children as just being costs and expenses. I think we have a strange attitude towards children. It’s not true that poorer children live more miserable lives. My SIL Living in a developing country has 4 children and for many years lived in a single room with them. They now have two rooms. We see her children every year and they appear remarkably happy despite the lack of material wealth. I used to work in a posh secondary school and the misery of some of the children , despite living in an affluent area was perplexing.
The friend that the OP mentioned obviously has some addiction to spending. I suspect she felt she had nothing to loose by having a child. Also a lot of poorer people in this country see having a child as giving them some security. A council is obliged to provide shelter for a child but not for a grown adult. I certainly wouldn’t judge.

Im sorry, me and my partner could not afford a child so i had to abort as a working middle-class female. Its vile the amount of tax my partner pays, i only see him once a week and he often is home past 9pm, leaving a 6am in the morning. Me and my partner pay an arm and a leg for others, we are the working class paying for the latter to "have families" and I will continue until I can afford to. I'm approaching 28 trying to achieve a comfortable independent family environment, for now this seams impossible, but for now i will try.

Oh and please only comment unless you are in our situation! I.e not with a child, reviving benefits or living in rented accommodation etc....you already have perks and made your chooses

YABU, pretty much. we should expect the unemployed, & indeed the unemployable, to knock a kid or two out if that's what they want to do. though i admit to being a little less relaxed in those rare cases of really vast broods being churned out by such people.

I was one of five, brought up in absolute poverty. We were all lucky enough to move on, get good jobs, and only have the children that we could afford.
Three of us have two, the other two have on each. I've never understood how people can have a load of kids thy can't afford.

Probably get told I am wrong but because we have decent ish jobs having kids would cost us a fortune knows child care and we would entitled to no help. However if you don’t save you get more help. Not an issue of class.

You are being sarcastic, aren't you?

I completely agree. It is not unreasonable to have 1 or 2 children, otherwise, how would we continue as a species? Having over that, when you are struggling financially, is irresponsible.

YANBU.

As a pp said Children are not provided for by the government for the sake of their parents but for the sake of society which needs new workers to be born and raised to replace the workers who retire.

This

I agree to an extent.

I think it's hard to throw a blanket statement of 'no one should have kids of you can't afford them' as theres so many exceptions to the case.

I see no harm in taking top ups (minimum wage is too low) relying on benefits when falling on hard time etc. As long as you are putting in the brunt work trying your very best to better the situation rather than than acting like it's the government's right to pick up the pieces.

I'm in my late 20's. I've probably got about 10 people on my Facebook who are same age, with between 3-7 children, mostly from different dads (cliche I know). They are often posting about how unfair it is their children have to share a room, they were posting a lot over Christmas about requesting donations and asking for freebies. Non of these girls I ever image to get jobs. One recently posted a cheesy fb pic saying something a long the lines of "people told me I'd never annount to anything- then I look at my children and I'm so proud of what I've achieved" bearing in mind ones currently expelled from school and all have some involvement with Cahms, and are all fed, housed and educated by the state. I don't think she has any 'right to children'. Her children are there for her benefit, no one else's.

One of my best friends accidentally got pregnant. Boyfriend wanted nothing to do with it. She was a carer on a zero hour contract and at the time was renting with a couple of friends. She decided when the baby was born, rather than renting on her own. She stayed with her mum (I know this isnt a viable option for everyone). She knew the most important thing was improving her prospects to give her child a better life, a starting point was needing to drive. She put all her money from her very low paid job into everything her daughter needed and the rest into learning to drive, now able to drive she was able to find more work and able to put more money aside to support her and her daughter. - she deserved every bit of financial help and more because she is really trying. She decided to terminate another pregnancy as she felt she couldnt give the child a good enough life. I feel she was entitled to her first, but knew a second wasnt wise.

I dont feel children are a right anyway in this day and age. Services are already stretched. I think to have a child you have to have to think long about how you are going to provide and if it's going to be a struggle you should really stop at one. - but obviously I know things don't always go to plan. But to actively plan a baby when fully reliant on others to provide is selfish.

My parents had two children by the time my mother was 15, both accidents. Then decided to have another one five years later when she could have started work to contribute to the household. Chaotic childhood of poverty and parents who hated each other. I find it very difficult when people talk about the 'right' to procreate. Poverty is misery and deprivation for children.

Zombie thread ffs.

But your example isn't about people who planned a child to let the state pay for it. Your friend is in a committed relationship with a man who works 13hr shifts 6 days a week. that is a lot of work. a lot of work. But they still need to accept benefits because after all that work they still can't afford a comfortable life. that is sad.
and on top of that your friend complained about the cost of life, and you fucking had a go at her. are you mad?
he works.
And they don't have rent to pay. and they are still struggling on a full time job with a 78hr work week?
can't you see this is sad and not their fault.

the desire for a child is strong. strong enough to make people have them before they own a house or have good jobs or enough for a nanny for 3 years.

oh god
fucking rich people and their dirty, vile thoughts 😒

I agree with you OP.

@Lucy2509

YTF have you resurrected this?

Crotchburn, if your not interested, don't read it. No one is forcing you.

You’re brave OP!

But I agree. Hardly anyone ever wants to take responsibility for the situations they create anymore. It’s always someone else’s fault and the responsibility of the state to pick up the tab.

Yesterday on Mumsnet my hard graft working and saving was dismissed as “luck”.

Every year, thousands of graduates who have put in a hard graft, not just over those 3 years, but at A level and when doing GCSEs, come out with no better job prospects than non-graduates. The majority will never get a job in their studied field, because they are lied to by teachers and the universities themselves about how the job market works. Many will be stuck on minimum wage. Would you call them lazy? Entitled? You would be ignorant to do so.

I have two children love another baby but we can't afford it at the Moment. I've always worked full time as has DH and believe nothing in life comes for free

@Singlenotsingle

Well, the only people to suffer as a result of their decision are themselves (and the poor DC of course, who will never be able to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle. I wouldn't have much sympathy myself.

Not true, we all suffer by having to pay for their benefits / tax credits etc. Many people can't afford to have children because they are paying for other peoples.

ZOMBIE!!

I generally knew before getting pregnant that childcare was expensive but I didn’t know just how expensive. It was a bit of a shock to find out at 6 months pregnant that I would be working for £200 a month but by that time it was too late and it wouldn’t have changed the decision anyway! I personally don’t think that many people would ring up a nursery if not pregnant but maybe I’m just not organised?

I think I read somewhere that the U.K. has the highest childcare costs in the world?!