If being a SAHM is a job then do working mothers have two jobs?

[Banana8080]

....if no extra help eg cleaners etc

Both can be hard for different reasons

But a wohp doesn’t do everything a sahp does plus the job because they are not there to do it and someone else is covering those hours

I was a widowed single parent and hospital doctor. My babies had a nanny, but she didn’t do any house chores or bath them or do their dinner - she just looked after them until I got home then left to get her bus. So I had to start on all that when I’d just got in from a tough shift in the operating theatre, while grieving for my recently deceased DH. I certainly did feel that I was doing two jobs, including all the gardening, decorating, DIY, shopping, cooking, cleaning and all the weekend, evening and holiday childcare.
If I’d had the luxury of being a sahm, I wouldn’t have had the additional stress of getting critically ill patients through major surgery every day.
So I do think sahms have an easier life - but at the cost of financial dependence and the loss of career satisfaction and an occupational pension.

IMO, it is a job, a bloody hard one at times. And like any job, it's a completely legitimate choice to outsource it for certain periods of time.

Looking after a house: cleaning, cooking, laundry, paperwork, maintenence etc, is a job if you are a cleaner, housekeeper, cook, etc, but some people say it isn't a job if it's your own house.
Because it's not a job if it's your house. It's a basic part of life (which some people may opt to outsource).

If I pay a chef to cook me a meal, I expect a different standard to me knocking something together as a traybake in the oven.
If I pay a cleaner to clean my house, I expect a different and more thorough clean than my weekly sweep around.
If I pay a qualified specialist early years professional to look after my children, I'd be expecting something quite different to 'kids go to Mam's or my friend Suzy's on a Wednesday'.

A professional service is a professional service.

Life is hard. Everyone's pathways have pros and cons. Being a SAHP is hard work but it is not a job.

Being a sahm is NOT a job. It drives me mad when I hear people describe it as this. A job is where you get paid in return for services provided. It involves answering to a boss and often customers. Staying at home with young children (your own children) may well be hard work and a valuable contribution to the family - ie if it enables your partner to work without restriction (and they want to take a backseat re childcare). If you mean that working mothers (and dads who don’t have a sahm) have double the workload as sahps then yes you’re right unless they can afford to outsource all household tasks - cleaning, laundry and cooking. WOHPs may also be more stressed because they have more to juggle and conflicting demands ie can they get annual leave to attend sports day/school play or they needed at a meeting that day or can they book that annual leave in summer holidays when a load of other working parents have requested it or can they take a few days off to look after their sick child or will they be disciplined for it.

Nope. Working mums are paying someone else to do their second job, during school hours, sooo..

Working mums still have to cook, clean, worry about kids, can’t stay in bed with kids in PJs If they feel like it ! Of course it’s double the work, in addition you have to do chores at the weekend eg post office bank etc. Not just socialise and take kids out.

can’t stay in bed with kids in PJs If they feel like it !

Well, I am part time, but I still can't do this on my days off. She wouldn't have any of that 😂

Nice to see all the new posts rehashing all the old canards about SAHMs again.

As someone who has had a foot in both camps at different times it annoys the hell out of me to see the cliches that get trotted out by both sides, without ever really engaging with the counterarguments, so this discussion just goes round and round in circles.

I really don’t know why I get involved every time

Imchangingmyname

Nope. Working mums are paying someone else to do their second job, during school hours, sooo..

I never paid someone to do my ‘second job.’ I had one job - my career in education. Some of the time during day time hours I outsourced some of the tasks I would have been doing had I been at home - changing nappies, doing activities with the children, taking them for a walk, outdoor play, preparing their lunch. When my children started school and our childcare costs decreased, we were able to afford a cleaner so I outsourced some of the tasks to her. (Though not all housework as a family of 5 make more mess than can be cleared in a weekly clean!) Home delivery of shopping wasn’t really a thing back then, so I didn’t outsource that.

I never outsourced parenting (which is a much bigger thing than a sum of various tasks) because I didn’t stop being a mum while I was working. Neither did dh stop being a dad, though strangely no one ever seems to feel the same about men.

Hopefully that clarifies what working parents do. While I was on maternity leaves and on my days off I didn’t outsource any of the above, and did all childcare and domestic stuff, just as I would if I’d chosen to be home full time.

Being a parent is bloody hard work (as well as absolutely wonderful.) It’s not a job, it’s a labour of love.

There is no point in any stupid argument about whether WOH or SAH is harder because there are so many different variables, depends on your children, your work, your partner, any wider support etc

Here Endeth the lesson!

My DS is school age and I work PT school hours so I don't pay anyone to look after him.

Wohm saying they do as much parenting as a sahm does is the equivalent of their husband coming home, looking around and saying ‘well what have you done all day?’

Or your co-workers referring to your maternity leave as ‘a nice little break’

You’re actually invalidating everything a sahp does - trying to insinuate that they must sit on their arses all day or doing leisurely things, like it’s a holiday.

I’ve been on both sides and, yes, I’m still a mother when I’m at work but I’m not doing any of the mind numbingly boring day to Day rearing of my children durin the 8-6 hours they are in nursery. It makes me enjoy the weekend with my dc as my days are no longer mingled into one.

I never paid someone to do my ‘second job.’ I had one job - my career in education. Some of the time during day time hours I outsourced some of the tasks I would have been doing had I been at home - changing nappies, doing activities with the children, taking them for a walk, outdoor play, preparing their lunch. When my children started school and our childcare costs decreased, we were able to afford a cleaner so I outsourced some of the tasks to her

So yes, you paid someone else to do your other job! I have seen so much SAHM bashing on here over the past month or so and now on this thread. Gems such as 'sitting at home in your pj's' etc etc. It is such bollocks. I had a busy career before my DC and I can honestly say being a mum trumped it all, in terms of stress and business. It's such a physical and emotionally draining job. However, I truly believe that I wouldn't have such contented, happy kids if I hadn't made that decision. That's just my opinion and my circumstance.
I didn't want to pay someone else to feed, change, cuddle my baby and do all the stuff I truly class as being 'my job'. Of course it's a fucking job.

I work full time with a 2.5 year old. I don’t have much time to myself. But I don’t think a SAHM has much time to herself either, and I have a husband who shares the load. Being a parent can be hard work. Let’s not start a SAHM bashing thread

Babdoc. I’ve seen you post in other threads. I have a lot of admiration for you. How did you manage?

When there are two parents and they both work full time, stats show that more often than not the woman takes on all of the heavy lifting of domestic chores-that's where I'm coming from

Then why bring up SAHPs at all?

'If you are in a relationship where both parents work, do you do all of the heavy lifting in terms of housework? Why?'
Would that not be the question?

No, being a SAHM isn't a job. And no WOHM don't have two jobs. They pay for childcare whilst they work.

I’mchangingmyname- it’s all semantics so if it makes you happy to tell WOHM and
WOHF they’re outsourcing their other jobs then crack on! I think it’s more accurate to say they’ve outsourcing certain tasks - but hey ho what does it matter?

Your children are happy and contented being a parent and a SAHM.

My children are happy and contented and I’m happy being a parent and working

That’s all that matters

Imchangingmyname - Also, you say in your own circumstances your children wouldn’t be content and happy if you continued in your work, therefore you did the best thing in giving up work. Either Dh or I would have had to give up our work if that had been the case with ours. We’re lucky that that wasn’t the case

Here endeth the lesson comment and a few gins made me do it... So here goes. Outsourcing? Let's call a spade a spade, you pay a person to care and interact with your child most of it's waking day. In your heart of hearts you know that effects the mother child bond don't you?

A SAHP is work, but it’s not a job itt just part of normal life.

Wow what made you so bitter madmarchpear? Must really piss you off when you see children of WOHP who grow into happy, well rounded successful adults who have a great bond with their parents!

Makes me sad when women have a go at each other. I’m a SAHM. It’s a choice I could make and it works for us. It is hard work. Being a working mum is also a choice, or a necessity and hard work too. Both equally valid.

So who won?

As is always the case with this debate, anyone who didn't play.

Indeed