If being a SAHM is a job then do working mothers have two jobs?

[Banana8080]

....if no extra help eg cleaners etc

There is a difference between doing something for someone you love and chose to have a relationship with, and doing something for another person for money (with attendant performance expectations and selection processes).

If you don't see the difference, then use this example: having sex with your partner because you love them is not the same thing at all as having sex with a client for money. Yet the actual act of having sex remains the same amount of physical exertion or labour, as it were.

So to anyone on here - wahp or sahp - who consider themselves to be the equivalent of taxi drivers, nurses, chefs, childminders and housekeepers, why is prostitute not also on that list?

In summary, caregiving in a relationship may take effort, but it is a vastly different thing than a job.

Ethylred

My experience is that is personality type not chosen lifestyle that makes a woman bitter.

I know many WOHP who are bitter and resentful, feeling that they are having to "do it all".
Threads here are full of women who work full time and are bitter and blocked because their men do little to help on the domestic front and despite working full time still do the bulk of the chores and the mental workload.

As I say it is an individual thing, not just SAHMs who are bitter and blocked.

When my kids were small I ran a local playgroup a few mornings a week, I studied and qualified as a breastfeeding counsellor, ran support groups, was involved with legal breastfeeding policy,involved with local musicians running music groups with families ( all these meant I could take my children with me- I had no child care)
When my kids started pre school I started a small business from home, when they started school I became involved with their school, was elected to become a school governor, continued with my breastfeeding work, continued developing my business, all the while fitting in my activities around my children.
I started going to the gym, yoga, trained as a yoga teacher.
Kids hit high school, I still worked part time from home.

My youngest is now 18, my business is thriving, I work 20 hours a week, ( still have to fit in my hobbies and the gym)
I earn twice what my OH earns, and there are not enough hours in the day to do everything I would like to- certainly not complaining though.

Am I bitter.

Er no.

Oh for heaven’s sake is this still rumbling on...

Physically taking care of children is work. If someone else is caring for your children 8-6 while you're at your job then you're not doing that work.

IfNotNowThenWhen1 because it's not up to my DM/MIL to know certain things. "He's not napping, what do I do, do I leave him or get him up?" "Where are the swim nappies?" "Where are his clean pants, he's had an accident?" "What shall I give him for lunch?" "You've run out of whole milk, can I put skimmed on his cereal?". If you had grandparents looking after your dc and they never asked you that kind of question, then you're very lucky! I see it as standard.

Nursery not so much, you're right, but you still get the dreaded phone call to tell you if they're ill/have had an accident/have wet themselves (potty training). And if they're ill, you or your partner have to be able to leave to pick them up.

The bulk of my childcare is grandparents rather than nursery, nursery is definitely easier as the time is less pressured so less rushing home from work to relieve a grandparent, you get fewer questions, no mess at the end of the day and no meals to cook. When my DM/MIL have him, the house is always a bomb site of toys same as if I'd been at home with him.

No, because you outsource the childcare during your working hours.

I guess if they're school age and you work school hours only you could say you're a part time SAHM?

I was fortunate enough to be able to stay at home for 3.5 years with my child. It was TOUGH. Really relentless, physically and emotionally full on and there was little thanks for it.

I went back to work a few months ago and it is so much easier. I was definitely resentful as a SAHM and am a better working mother, I think!

DH has always been supportive, hard working (both at work and when he gets home) so I have had it relatively easy both ways.

I have MASSIVE respect for ALL women - those who choose to look after children full time and make a success of it, those who have no choice but to stay at home, women who have a full time job, part time job, shift work. I think we are all fucking amazing! As are the partners who also work to support a family, do their share around the house, take the kids on their own, etc etc. I've never understood this mum-bashing and have always stayed out of it but now I've seen both sides of the coin I understand it even less.

Oh, and to answer the OP, if you're looking at it in those black and white terms I guess SAHM's have one, 24/7 job and you have two "part time" jobs which add up to 24/7.

I would take the two job option any day. There comes a point where, yes, you may be at work in an office and are also a parent but a) you are free to move about when you like and manage your time, and b) there's a lot to be said for a change of scenery, pace, etc. That's my experience of it.

I only have one child so I can't comment on being a SAHP to several pre-schoolers. Yes that must be challenging (although my friends with more than one say it's easier as the kids play together once they're a certain age. But say two toddlers and a BF young baby, that would be very demanding).

But on my one week day off with my 2.5 year old, we get up, read stories in bed or he potters while I shower. He plays while I get breakfast ready. Eat breakfast together. More playing. Maybe water the plants together. Possibly meet friends at softplay or a play date, or just go to softplay or the park the two of us. Have lunch together. He naps for 1.5 hours. I tidy up then sit with a cuppa (heaven). We play again, or go for a walk. It's all very very leisurely and nothing compared to the other 4 days when I'm getting up at 6am, DH or I are getting him ready for nursery/his other childcare, leaving for work by 7:20am so I can then leave work no later than 4pm to be home for his grandmothers so they can leave by 4:30pm. Then making his tea, tidying up all the toys/general mess from their day. Of course my days off (with child) are easier, there's no comparison. What'll be even easier on my day off is when he's in playgroup half days, or eventually full time school. One whole day 9-3 to myself!!! I actually can't wait

Is mumsnet still
Having this row?

Just do what is best for your family. It’s all hard work.

I only work term time so have had my daughter constantly during the school hols. Bloody hell I don’t know how sahm do it. With her I don’t get a lunch break or any time alone. She constantly is in my face needing entertainment (I don’t provide it constantly but doesn’t stop her asking). I am bored shitless and I am bloody looking forward to going back to work. I have much more quality time with her when I am not nagging her all day.

So no, I don’t think it is two jobs. Just different jobs with different working conditions.

Lookingforadvice123

You surely can't get that many phone calls a day while you're at work? If your parents/IL look after them regularly they'll surely make common sense decisions on their own and know the routine quite well after a while. Surely if you were getting a phone call every half hour your work would take issue with it. If it's just one or two calls a day (which is more than most grandparents would need to call) it's not a big deal surely?

So to anyone on here - wahp or sahp - who consider themselves to be the equivalent of taxi drivers, nurses, chefs, childminders and housekeepers, why is prostitute not also on that list?

Because if you didn't drive your kids or look after them on any particular day someone else would have to be paid to do it so by doing it yourself your saving a specific amount of money. If you don't have sex with your partner on a particular night he will just have a wank or not bother - he won't go out and pay a prostitute instead so you're not saving the equivalent amount of money.

Look you're being ridiculous here and you make yourself look bitter by making such a ridiculous comparison. Being a SAHP is similar (but not identical) to having a job because it has enormous economic value for the household and involves work.

Semantics really looking after young children is work whether you are paid or not. A colleague and I exchanged glances when we heard a mother with 2 young kids one of which was having an epic tantrum outside our office and we both quietly agreed what we were doing was way pleasanter. The lady outside wasnt getting paid but was working.

IceCreamFace
So why don't people just say being a SAHP is a valuable thing in itself with its own challenges?
Why do some SAHP insist on going down the route of 'if it wasn't for me being a taxi driver, nurse, household admin, childcare person then we'd haveto pay...' ?
That's what's irritating.

Being a SAHP is valuable. Working out the home is valuable. Trying (as many have on here) to go down the route of 'my life is more difficult than yours because I do all these other general household jobs' is just pointless and silly.
Why not say SAHP is valuable in its own right without stupid comparisons to it being a job (or harder than jobs) and how people are so busy because they have household admin to do?

Maisy, it is true though that sah can save money. Lots of people would pay more in childcare than they could earn, so sah is not without financial value to some families.

When it comes to comparison over whose life is harder, then I agree it is silly. Everyone's circumstsances are different and how each person judges 'difficulty' depends upon how much they enjoy they job, the kind of job they do, commute, age and specific needs of their dc, total family income etc. There's no one size fits all.

Also never understood competition as to who has the harder life? Surely the really smart people are those who've set up their lives so they and their family are happy?

It’s just an opportunity for people go on about how brilliant they are

It’s called ‘life’

People look after their kids. People work.

Get over it

Emilia, cleaning a bathroom or ferrying kids about, is not more enjoyable just because it is one's own bathroom or children. Both tasks still suck - arguably it sucks less if someone is paying you!
Sex with your chosen partner is not the same as sex with someone you don't know, in exchange for money. It's about more than the physical effort expended hopefully

IceCreamFace no of course it's not every half hour. I also text to check in on how DS is doing so it works both ways. My point is, even if you have someone else doing your childcare whilst you're at work, you don't stop the parenting to a degree. You still have to make sure there's appropriate food for the day, the correct clothes eg wellies, swimming gear are clean or available. Tidying up after their day. Making their tea. Admittedly it's easier on a nursery day, and I've said that in my pp - nursery day is my favourite day of the week as they even give him tea before he comes home!

Tinycitrus no one is going on about how brilliant they are. I work in civil service so heavily female, the majority of women child bearing age have the responsibility of children as well as working either mostly full time (I work 32 hours over 4 days) or full time. Women whose children are older may also have caring responsibilities for elderly parents or in laws, which they juggle whilst working full time.

I think the gripe for many by reading this thread, and which I agree with, is the SAHP who go on about how "busy" they are. SAHPing is absolutely exhausting. But so is working the bulk of the week with children, and running a home/family life. I don't think I would enjoy being a SAHM, whereas I enjoy my job. But I wouldn't pretend it makes me rushed off my feet busy.

I really cannot imagine how the previous poster thought bringing prostitution into this was going to aide a helpful discussion.

I have every respect for working mums. They juggle a huge amount and I’m sure there are all kinds of things that are much harder in their lives.
All I expect people to understand is that as a sahm to three pre nursery children I am also working hard and that there will be parts of my life that are harder too. If people essentially start saying well I have it and do it all and ‘anything you can do, I do better’, I’m not especially inclined to have a conversation with you!

I’m probably not unusual in having friends in every situation. In real life we care and support one another and don’t demean or undermine the role or challenges they face. It’s a shame that mumsnet has to be so unpleasant.

Good day.

Here we go

Well I work ft and have three kids in a similar role to a civil servant (not government) and its pressured.

I was also SAHM for five years. I also did shift work (nights) when I had three children under five. Oh and I did a second degree.

Being a SAHM is relentlessly tiring, thankless and isolating if you do not have a support network. The loss of status is very difficult. But some people make a really good job of it and raise happy healthy children.

Being a working mother is relentlessly tiring, thankless and isolating (particularly when your mummy friends ‘drop’ you). But you are at work with adults, you can go to the loo on your own and you have status and identity outside the home.

Thus weekend I am cleaning the house and doing the washing.

It’s ALL HARD no matter what situation you are in.

Surely that depends on your circumstances. There’s no need to have this conversation at all it just encourages divide.
As a SAHP of 2 under School age and 2 in school, it is a full time job, and yes I view it as a job. If all my kids were in school and I had 6 hours a day, 5 days a week without children I would not consider it in quite the same way.