To feel sorry for this lady?

[Spanglylycra]

Two of my male friends are having a baby via surrogate due later this year.I know they will make great parents and this isn't an anti-gay thread at all. The baby is via donor egg implanted into the surrogate who has no biological relationship. However (my AIBU) I can't help feeling sad for the surrogate. I know she is a grown woman capable of making her own decision and has gone into this willingly but she doesn't know them and doesn't owe them anything and despite payment being illegal in the UK there is still a very large "expenses" payment made which is well into 5 figures. So despite the fact they will be amazing parents I just feel sad/uncomfortable about the woman's role in this. On one hand they talk positively about her being amazing and selfless and on the other hand refer to her "just carrying it" which makes me sad for women being used as a vessel - it's a bit Handmaid-esque. Their social media posts are also starting to be covered in #dontforgetaboutdads and I just feel like the woman's role is being cut out. Just wondered what others may think am I over thinking this?!

I don't think you can compare surrogacy here, to places like India. Imo she is not the mother of this child and she made her choice. No one is forced into surrogacy in this country.
I do find myself feeling sorry for children that are born to surrogates who use donor eggs - those children have no 'real' mother and that makes me uncomfortable. They will spend their whole childhood not knowing about half their history.

Payment of expenses doesn’t make the act less altruistic

Yes, because if it the surrogate wasn't paid "expenses", she wouldn't do it at all

My liberal outlook tells me that this should be fine. The law supports it. The surrogates choose. But are we properly considering the child, when they say "who is my mother?" What do we say and how to help them?

This method is totally different in my view than adoption or to surrogacy where the woman donates her own egg. In each case, there IS a mother, named or not, known or not.

This method carefully edits out and diminishes any mother role. This may be entirely innocent but it deeply worries me.

The purpose appears to be that the new couple can take full (er) ownership with no other single person having a greater biological claim than them. This seems to be entirely for the benefit of the couple with little consideration for the child.

My feelings apply to any couple who does this.

I can't help but agree with snuggybuggy... it's the baby I feel sorry for. Don't get me wrong I'm sure your friends will be loving parents etc. but the baby is being separated from the person they know (scent, voice etc.) from birth. It's seems wrong to do this on purpose. I had never really thought too much about surrogacy, makes me quite sad actually.

hmm Yes, because if it the surrogate wasn't paid "expenses", she wouldn't do it at all

Why should a woman who is doing something generous be out of pocket for it? Why should her expenses be met?

*why shouldn’t her expenses be met?

I also agree that it's crazy not to pay expenses. She's doing it out of her own free will but why should she be thousands of pounds out of pocket?

Two women involved, egg donor (maybe as part of her own treatment) and surrogate have high risk experiences to provide this baby. A sperm donor would take less risk, but I always wonder how (some) men (including servicemen) leave babies all over the place and don't wonder how they are. Seems women are doing the same, maybe altruistically.

How much screening is given to people who use surrogates, it seems like adoption to me, tho child presumably is biologically related to one of the fathers. They will have to adopt to both be recognised, or one will be step parent.

I used to think biology less influence than nurture but so much medical and maybe other info is genetic, and many people have identity issues, so think it is complicated, whatever gender or sexuality of parents. Certainly it is poor women servicing rich men. Nothing new about that.

Ok re "expenses" I won't name a figure, I've said it's in 5 figures and I also know I didn't incur anywhere near the level of "expenses" when I was pregnant. The lady doesn't work so there is no loss of earnings to be made up for. And again I'm not saying she shouldn't be paid but don't wrap it up and pretend otherwise.

What nakedscientist said.

I have huge issues with commercial surrogacy. I know there are people out there doing it for genuine and altruistic reasons. But I find it deeply worrying that the application of capitalism to gestation means that vulnerable and poor women are at high risk of exploitation.

I also am uncomfortable with the concept of eliminating the woman's nurturing role because the presence of a contract simply identifies her as a rented uterus. There are serious physical and mental health risks associated with pregnancy. Research shows from 25-26 weeks onward, babies in utero hear voices and sounds and therefore will be used to hearing their Mother's voice and her heartbeat.

I am very on the fence about it. I am very supportive of people having families - gay, straight, bi, whatever. But the desire to have a family cannot and should not outweigh moral and ethical concerns around surrogacy. And I say this as someone who is infertile and cannot carry her own children.

I’m dying to know how much too! Haha!

Yanbu to wonder if she’s happy and that she’ll be okay.

Resistenceelsnecessary

Beautifully put

I’m more concerned about the social consequences in a world where buying and selling children is normalised.

Ok re "expenses" I won't name a figure, I've said it's in 5 figures and I also know I didn't incur anywhere near the level of "expenses" when I was pregnant. The lady doesn't work so there is no loss of earnings to be made up for. And again I'm not saying she shouldn't be paid but don't wrap it up and pretend otherwise.

But she is doing something potentially very risky for someone else.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not 100% comfortable with surrogacy myself but see no reason to feel sorry for the woman in the OP.

I think it's a lovely thing to do for someone who feels they can do it. I assume you think your friends will make wonderful parents ... that should be the focus ... no one is being 'used' in this country. It's optional and thoroughly discussed before hand.

Thailand case where they have banned commercial surrogacy, but even then it's not stopping people from hiring Thai women, taking them across the border into Laos to impregnate them and then bringing them back to carry the pregnancy to term.

This came out of the uproar about Gammy the baby who was born as part of twins to a Thai surrogate who was carrying on behalf of an Australian couple, one of whom is a convicted sex offender. The judge ruled in the end that the couple didn't abandon him (he was born with Down's) but I am pretty sceptical that they only took his sister Pipah who coincidentally did not have Down's.

If a woman is living on the edge of grinding poverty in a poor country, then being paid to rent herself out and carry a child for money is exploitation. It is not a transaction of equals.

I have a question about surrogacy but not related to the couple in the op. What happens if the couple change their mind for whatever reason? What happens to the baby?

Not at all overthinking.
The surrogate is doing it because she needs the money.
The implications of a woman and her womb being a saleable commodity are thought provoking , to say the least.
Your post suggests that the payment is illegal, breaching legislation which was put in place to protect women, so that this situation of womb renting for money wouldn't be an issue.
The surrogate doesn't know the fathers, it's unlikely to be altruistic.
I'd be thinking more about how vulnerable and financially desperate the surrogate is.

I know I wouldn't be able to be a surrogate, even if it wasn't my egg. Since having my son my views have changed on surrogacy a lot. I just can't see it as a transaction.

You're not being unreasonable at all. It's an odd thing to bring a child into the world who will not know his or her's mother (or father come to that).

Again it boils down to people feeling they have a right to a child which no-one does imo. There are plenty of children out there already in need of a home without going to such ridiculous lengths.

However what is done is done.

YANBU. I also don't agree with this definition of 'altruistic' surrogacy- for me, that means deciding to help an existing friend or loved one, not seeking out strangers. Even in the UK where commercial surrogacy is illegal there have been awful cases of women with limited understanding/ mental health issues being exploited. The lack of oversight or regulation prior to the commencement of a surrogate pregnancy concerns me.

I have a friend who had a baby through a surrogate and it seemed like a positive experience for both of them. I can't speak to the woman's financial situation but she certainly didn't appear to be pressured into it. It was something she had wanted to do because she had children and wanted to help those who could not. I think her (the surrogate's) husband struggled with the concept at first but ultimately they decided they'd like to do this for another couple.

The two couples are still in touch and are friends now. There's never been any weirdness about it and I think it was a really lovely thing for her to do.

Assuming the choice is completely hers and she isn't being pushed/forced/coerced into it, then I see no issue with it.

She may be doing it for financial gain. And that's completely her choice. As long as she understands what's happening let her fill her boots.

Do you have the same issue with men/woman who donate eggs/sperm for financial gain? Or people in America I think can still be paid to donate blood. What about people who are paid for medical research to trial new drugs? As long as the person has a choice and is happy let them crack on!

I think that could be mitigated by surrogates and couples staying in contact throughout the child's life and through being open from the outset.

That's the case in the vast majority of surrogacy births in the UK

Most UK surros wouldn't enter into a match without this agreed up front

I've heard lots of surros describe it as 'extreme babysitting' - the child is a part of their life, but they don't perceive it as 'their' child