AIBu - to want to have sex with my own wife

[Dadboddancer]

Dear Mumsnet

I've turned to mumsnet in desperation and need a a female perspective.
I'm worried I'm being an insensitive husband.

I need advice about how to approach a lack of intimacy and sex in our marriage since the birth of our first child.

The back story - I've been happily married for 7 years. We were together 5 years before getting married. We have two lovely children aged 3/12 and 11 months.

The problem with intimacy started when my wife got pregnant. We did not have sex or any sexual contact during the pregnancy. This was her wish and I was fine with it. Other intimacies were ok at that stage.

After the birth - as expected -all intimacy dissipated. We did not even kiss again for 10 months. We probably had sex 3 times in the 2 years after - once amazingly conceiving our beautiful daughter. Other intimacy remained very limited (and one sided from me).

Like all other couples - I think we neglected our relationship after our first baby. However, since - I've made sure we get some "us" time even if its only once per month. I still think she is beautiful and she still gets flowers and random gifts. I've re-arranged my work schedule to have a day off at home to help with childcare and home running.

I feel awful saying this - but having sex 4/5 times in 5 years isn't enough for me. The constant rejection, and then the constant holding back so im not "pestering" is getting me down. I'm happy in every other aspect and she is an AMAZING mother.

Its so hard to talk about things without appearing to moan about not getting any

Can I ask for your collective experience:

1. Have other couples/ ladies had similar drops in their libido after their children - if so how did things turn out?
2. Have any of you worked through a problem like this - what was your approach?
3. If I can't get past this - what are my options - do any of you live in sexless marriages for the kids benefit and get on ok?

Feeling terrible about considering causing my children pain and leaving just because I dont get laid.

Any serious views will be taken on board.

Gosh this thread is depressing ...

Op don’t give up !!! Stroke her hair and help her fall asleep tonight. Be as caring towards her as she is to your kids and that’s how you refill her energy.. caring builds love.. love builds desire

You sound like a decent bloke, and YANBU. Realistically, a relationship where one partner is 100% focused on the children, is not interested in sex, does not make the effort with partner/takes partner for granted, will NOT survive (trust me, I've been there). Resentment will quickly take over everything else.
You really must speak to her about how you feel, and try and reach some resolve, by yourselves or through counselling. But you cannot do it on your own; she has to want it too.

"She said some of the things you said here. "Touched out", "tired", "tired of having to think about everything"

WITHOUT LOOKING when is your eldest childs next dental appointment OP? i suspect she is carrying a lot more of the mental load than you.

No not all that for a shag. All that for a happy well balanced relationship. I expect most Mums do most of that list without even thinking about it and most Dads don’t do many of them.

Redsharks , that’s heartbreaking and very brave of you to share!
What wonderful advice, and I completely get what you’re saying- being a mum of young children - you don’t have enough headspace for everything and can easily lose sight of being a couple. OP I think it would be so helpful to you both if family could give you some time and space out of the house as a couple , that’s what I craved in the early years but never had, I wish you the best of luck.

What the fuck is a dad manager? So you manage the bills. Don't they just come out via direct debit, requiring about minutes thought every few years? Have you ever read this? www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Anyway doing some housework isn't great if you're just doing it hoping for sex. Do it because you WANT to help her. Try to ease the mental load. Take her away for an evening and wine and dine her. Don't leave finding a babysitter up to her.

You sound rather like my husband, OP.

I still love him. I still fancy him. I’m just so tired, bone-deep tired, with 2 young children, 1 of whom barely sleeps, and a job, that even a short time to have sex often feels like it’s just eating into the few hours of sleep that I do get.

You need to understand why she’s not wanting sex and then you can work out how to deal with it 🤞🏻

@Applesandpears23 that is fucking brilliant advice.

Can someone report croprotation? I can't be arsed.

You sound really lovely OP, and the fact that you came on here to ask women for advice says a lot for your character and how much you love your wife. Me and my husband have been in exactly the same place, and the only thing that helped was talking and more talking. And being honest with one another. It is totally reasonable for one person in a relationship to feel rejected because of a lack of sex, but it is equally reasonable for the other to not feel able to, particularly after something as life changing as having a baby.
You sound like a good, strong couple, and it sounds like you both care about the relationship and the family. It actually sounds like you both love each other and that it's not sex with you that your wife is feeling anxious about, it's sex in general.The only way to find out is to talk about it.

The cuddling thing: this was me and my husband completely. He would give me cuddles, and actually not necessarily want sex or anything else, but I was so worried that I'd end up having to reject him and hurt him, that it ended up being a self fulfilling prophecy. Again, the only way we worked through it was by talking.
Our Ds's are now 5 and 3, with another on the way, and although we still don't have as much sex now as we did before the kids (due, apart from anything else, to just not having enough hours in the day), the physical intimacy, the cuddles, kissing, hand holding are back as much as ever, and that is enough to be getting on with until these early years pass.
Reading your posta, I've got high hopes for you guys, there is definitely a concrete base there and definitely love there, and that is a very solid foundation to build from.
Wishing you all the luck in the world xx

They say that sex for women is 90% in the head, it's true. If our heads aren't in the game, nothing is going to make our bodies ready. I remember one of the biggest 'perker-uppers' when our marriage hit the post baby slump was appreciation. It meant more than flowers and compliments, and was equal to helping out. Not gratitude in a Uriah Heep way, but DH saying after dinner "Oh, that was nice" without making a big production of complimenting me. Telling me that he was happy just to be home with me (even on the days the house looked like a hurricane had hit). Just making me feel day to day appreciated. That what I did was noticed.

Of course words aren't enough, they have to be followed by deeds. Deeds that begin with "Here babe, let me do that tonight, you go sit". Division of labour is right and fair and I do suggest you take a good look at yours. But when you voluntarily and cheerfully take one of her tasks it really means something.

It can't hurt to try, right?

YANBU, that sounds hard. For me, the lack of kissing and cuddling would probably be more difficult than the sex life. I've always been a physically affectionate person, and so is DH, so it's something we make time for. If I'm tired/stressed, I want to snuggle (but probably not have sex) with DH to unwind.

I think a more general conversation with your wife about love languages might help. Rather than starting the conversation with you wanting sex, start with asking what makes her feel loved and then bring in that intimacy is something that makes you feel loved.

croprotationinthe13thcentury "Bloody hell apples all that for a shag??"

Of course he should not be doing all that for a shag! Once a week taking his own kids out and planning where to go and packing a bag! Is that a lot?

Telling his wife he loves her and bringing home a small gift, is that a lot?

I used to bring home choccy bars for dh and he would leave me little notes.

I always thank him for the things he does, driving the car, filling it with petrol, mowing the grass. He rarely if ever thanks me for cooking dinner. Or notices if the kids are playing up and intervenes before I do!

Ironically, he is actually a very, very supportive husband who does a lot. My friends are amazed he cooks dinner ever, some friends say their dh has never cooked for them!

But of all the issues dh and I do have, if we have any, it is lack of communication! Lack of really engaging in a conversation. Noticing things etc. Life gets busy, I understand this but I do make an effort to thank him for all he does, even brilliant sex!

OP now read back what I said about going off sex for a while and see if any of this is relevant.

Good luck, OP.

apples you are a star.

AcrossthePond55 read your post, yes appreciation is very important.

Being noticed and appreciated is a bit of a turn on for me!

You have two children under 4. Your wife is still breastfeeding and gave birth less than a year ago. Of course yabu.

I'm not saying you have to accept a sex-less marriage for the rest of your life, but you need to stop thinking you're owed sex when your wife will feel like her body doesn't even belong to herself at the moment, more like it's a tool which is nourishing YOUR child.

The primary function of your relationship when you have two children as young as yours is looking after those children. And to even be thinking about walking out on that responsibility, when your wife has literally given her body to it, is frankly disgusting. Even if she had any libido at the moment (unlikely at this stage, many women say they don't really get their libido back until around the two year mark) that kind of attitude is not exactly going to be making you attractive to her.

You need to try actually listening to your wife - not strangers on the internet who you're hoping will say you're justified in seeking sex elsewhere, but the woman who's grown, birthed and nourished your children. She's telling you she's touched out and exhausted. Listen to her.

You keep saying that it didn't get better after your first child - your first child wasn't even two when she became pregnant again. I realise that for you it's been five years without regular sex, but for her it's been five years of growing/feeding babies, sleepless nights, hormones all over the place and beginning to recover and starting to feel like her body is her own and feel like herself again only to start the whole exhausting, painful process all over again (so get over yourself).

So much of what PPs have said rings true for me.
My thoughts would be touched out and exhausted both physically and mentally.

My DCs are 4 and 2. It is only in the last few months I have had even the slightest interest in sex. Most days by the DC's bedtime I'm struggling not to shout at them to stop pawing at me, I'm so touched out. Once they're in bed I don't want anyone else carrying on with it. I stopped bf 15 months ago, but I still get totally weirded out by DH touching my boobs. It reminds me of bf too much and is a massive turn off (It's getting better but is very slow progress). I'm also tired. Nothing kills libido like exhaustion, and running around after 2 miniature dictators whilst carrying the mental load that accompanies them is most definitely exhausting! Add paid work and no family help into the mix and it's a nightmare.
I would generally say that my DH does his share of the physical work (we usually sit down at the same time as each other in the evening), but he finds the mental load completely invisible. He sits down for the day and switches off, I sit down with my head still whirling ten to the dozen. I find it telling he complains he's too tired to do as much of his (physical) hobby as he'd like to, yet I'm too tired to even contemplate re-introducing a hobby yet. There is clearly still a fairly large imbalance somewhere!

Another recommendation to ask her what would really help, e.g. DH offering to wash the dishes, when what I really needed was to have a break from holding a clingy baby (and would happily give my right arm to do the dishes as a way of getting that break!) was not helpful at all, even though he was trying to be kind.
DH never ask me so I've had to tell him (annoying, and more work for me in the short term, but hopefully better longer term!). The crutial part for me has been delegating the mental load part of the task, so e.g. he was put in charge of DC1's 30hrs childcare. Previously he would have done all the physical form-filling bits, but it would have been down to me to remember the deadline was looming and sort various issues surrounding it with our childcare providers. The last 2 terms I totally washed my hands of it, and at most just relayed messages from nursery/preschool that he needed to contact them to sort xyz. It made a massive difference to me!

Keep the mention of sex totally out of it at the moment apart from perhaps good cuddles with an accompanying "I'm not looking for a shag, just fancied a hug" (and mean it!). I too have felt my heart sink with a physical touch that I just know means he'll be after something later. When he openly (and honestly!) states that's not his intention I relax. That removal of pressure goes a long way to increasing my feelings of intimacy and likelihood of some action at some point soon

Of course he should not be doing all that for a shag! Once a week taking his own kids out and planning where to go and packing a bag! Is that a lot?

It's not just that that apples suggested. She also suggested never saying he's tired, being cheerful (even if he's not), and not talking about himself. I really don't think those are ways to open up communication in a relationship. I would never begrudge DH telling me he's tired for goodness sake - I'm not competing with him over who has the most difficult life!

Me too, Italian. Even after 30+ years of marriage a bit of appreciation can still get the motor running! Works for him, too!

apples can correct me but I doubt "Stop saying you feel tired." really means never again say you are tired.

My friend has a dh who is always ill, always something wrong, if she gets ill, he is always sicker. I do wonder if apples was meaning something like this, being tired is not a competition.

"Don’t talk about yourself." Yes, I agree that not talking about yourself ever is not going to help communication but to be honest some people talk about themselves a lot and some do not. I'd probably say something like, if you always talk about yourself a lot, take a break, if you never talk about yourself, then start!

But exactly what apples meant will probably be clarified.

After our child was born I had pretty much no sex drive for about 18 months. I think we maybe had sex a couple of times.

The main reason for me was just the desire NOT to be needed. I felt like sex was just another job that had to be accomplished. I was tired, resentful, I felt unattractive, easily irritated and I definitely had PND which lingered for a long time.

I also shied away from any physical contact because I felt enormous pressure that it had to develop into full blown sex.

Our child is now 3.5 and our sex life is back on track. My husband will always have a higher sex drive than I do and I am also massively influenced by my hormones. So, there is a window of 7-10 days each month where I'm up for it, the rest of the time, I'm just not. He understands that now and doesn't pressure me.

I guarantee that your wife is feeling the pressure, even if it's unspoken. She's not stupid, she will know that you're frustrated. The thing is, the lack of sex has become the big elephant in the room. You need to try and find a way to communicate with her because yes your needs should be taken into account too.

Try and reintroduce some physical intimacy (cuddles, holding hands, a massage) but make it very clear that you're not expecting a shag at the end of it.

Talk to her, listen to her, connect with her on an emotional rather than practical level.

@Applesandpears23 I will check back tomorrow to see if I have made a massive booboo. Apologies in advance if I have.

night OP

I would not survive in such a sexless relationship. Talking past this is key.

Sexless marriage is possible, no matter that Mumsnet often finds it shocking and pathetic. My DH shut up shop after we conceived our child 8 years ago. Won’t talk about it. Took him to couples therapy and even there he said he didn’t know why, and wasn’t fussed. The furthest I’ve gotten is making him have a physical to check hormone levels and general health conditions that can affect libido. Came back clear.

Now I’m at that crossroads of knowing if I want sex ever again in my life, I’ll have to end my marriage or go outside it. I refuse to break up my household for a need of mine that I can suppress if I try. I calculate that although it’ll affect my DD to see so little fun/intimacy in her parents, it’s still better than divorce.

I’ve become an expert on knowing what it is that sex gives you in a relationship, and what damage not getting it does to you. I guarantee it’s more than people think. And it’s nothing like being single and ‘not getting any’. It’s like living in a restaurant, hungry, but none of the food is for you.

We’re missing the ‘glue’ that connects and reconnects us as a couple. Without it, petty arguments are more frequent, and more liable to escalate. Without needing to ‘keep himself nice’ for sex, he is sliding in his appearance and personal habits. I find I have periods of drinking more and eating more to self-comfort- with the added comfort of giving myself an answer to ‘why doesn’t he want me?’ ‘ah, I must be too fat’. Truth is, I am beautiful and desirable, just not to the person I love.

If you do stick with it, and accept a celibate marriage, you have to pay attention to your mental health. It’s easy to let it seriously affect your self-esteem. Make up for it in other ways. Be clear on why you’re doing it, that it’s a choice you made. It’s not a full life, and I get very wistful sometimes, but it is doable.

But do therapy first. I didn’t give up until I knew I had expressed my sadness and pain fully. The therapist helped me do that.

I have four Dcs. You must tell her how you feel.

I absolutely went off sex with my XH because he was never "in charge" of the DCs. He would babysit rather than parent and never knew what they needed next or what to feed them etc without referring to me. I felt like I had an extra child. It's a shame because we had got on brilliantly and had a very good sex life for years.

You work 50 hours a week, she works 168.

YABU.