Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

reports etc direct to parents against the wishes of the HT or SENCO would lead to disciplinary action in most schools.

If so, and if the HT and SENCO are refusing to give parents information about their child, that is disgraceful conduct on their part, in addition to being a serious breach of the Data Protection Act. I realise it is difficult for teachers, but if they're not prepared to tell it how it is in order to get the support a child needs, they need to stop blaming parents.

Dermy I have no personal axe to grind! I thought I had been very clear in my posts that teachers/parents are not to blame for lack of funding.

Getting funding for a child who’s needs are not being met is easier if school/parents work together.

How that amounts to me having an axe to grind and me thinking I’m ‘amazing’ I’m not sure! confused]

Not all children with SN will require an EHCP. EHCP’s are applied for when children’s needs are above and beyond what a mainstream can supply! So no all children with potential SN would not need to apply!

If so, and if the HT and SENCO are refusing to give parents information about their child, that is disgraceful conduct on their part, in addition to being a serious breach of the Data Protection Act. I realise it is difficult for teachers, but if they're not prepared to tell it how it is in order to get the support a child needs, they need to stop blaming parents.
That's a big leap there! What kind of reports do you imagine schools are sitting on? The problem is that the profound lack of resources is making the system adversarial.

@guienne - err what? I am confident the senco knows she is working within the law. I think it’s more that none of the pupils have been assessed to need full time 1:1 and we don’t think they need it either. A pupil might have a couple of hours of 1:1 and there are pupils who have a TA in every class but not exclusively for them. I might spend half the lesson with one pupil or occasionally spend the whole lesson with one child if they need it etc but really we just don’t favour 1:1. Some pupils have complex needs but a TA sitting next to them all day isn’t necessarily a great way to meet those needs. No doubt there are some kids who would benefit but in our school neither we nor
The ed psych think it’s required for our pupils.

It is not my job to make recommendations about SEN provision. I would be disciplined for doing so as I am not qualified.

And yet the government tells us that every teacher is an SEN teacher. It is surely your job to report what you see, e.g. that a child is not making progress, or struggles when they don't have 1:1 support, or responds well to particular strategies, or cannot communicate, or is distressed by noise and light, or is massively anxious. That is the sort of information that leads to referrals to experts and provides evidence of the need for EHCP assessments. All too many teachers either don't observe these things or keep quiet about them. As pointed out by others, teachers too often seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that children often mask difficulties such as autism in school only to have massive meltdowns when they get home - and then teachers blame it on the parents without considering that just possible it is in fact the stresses of a day not coping in school that have led to the meltdowns.

Likewise, it is not my job to refer parents to experts. My job is to follow, to the best of my ability, the strategies with which I am provided, and to try to my utmost to meet the needs of the child in front of me. You are attempting to make me responsible for things for which I am not and cannot have held responsible. I understand it is your frustration talking, but you are expecting too much of teachers as individuals.

That is incredibly sad, and also surprising, because some teachers are prepared to do that. Also some seem to be ready enough to advise parents not to apply for extra support, even when they're wrong, so I don't really understand why it doesn't cut both ways. If you're not prepared even to refer parents to advice sources to help them secure extra support, I would suggest you possibly lose the right to complain about how difficult it is to cater for children in your class with SEN.

However I think teachers/TAs do sometimes have their reasons to be sceptical about diagnoses and SEN.

What reasons are these? It's bloody hard to get a diagnosis of anything. Especially if yours is the quiet compliant child who isn't running off or chucking chairs about or getting physically aggressive

Why don't teachers trust health professionals to make accurate diagnoses?

Why are we supposed to trust teachers professional opinions when teachers don't extend that to other professionals?

If so, and if the HT and SENCO are refusing to give parents information about their child, that is disgraceful conduct on their part, in addition to being a serious breach of the Data Protection Act. I realise it is difficult for teachers, but if they're not prepared to tell it how it is in order to get the support a child needs, they need to stop blaming parents.

Is not telling someone something breaching the Data Protection Act? If the information is there in my head (that I am not meeting the child's needs in the classroom) and I am asked for it, and it is recorded, and then withheld, then yes. It is not breaching the DPA for the Head not to tell a parent something, per se. And how would I as the teacher know what the parents had or had not been told? Or be in a position to give legal advice vis a vis the DPA?

Guienne

I don't lose the right to complain about anything. You are contributing to my complaints right now, expecting me to offer legal services as well as being a teacher. Obviously I will tell the truth to the extent that my role allows. I don't cover anything up. I am just not in a position to provide what you want me to provide.

It is surely your job to report what you see, e.g. that a child is not making progress, or struggles when they don't have 1:1 support, or responds well to particular strategies, or cannot communicate, or is distressed by noise and light, or is massively anxious

All too many teachers either don't observe these things or keep quiet about them

so basically what you are saying is forget teaching totally, and spend our ENTIRE lives observing and writing reports.

Again, a HUGE underestimate of the number of students we see in a week, and the number of lessons we teach, and assessments done

Penggwyn, when teachers give incorrect advice as to the law, sometimes to an extent which is positively dangerous, I think it's reasonable to describe them as clueless in that regard. It's not a matter of them not agreeing with me, it's a matter of giving blatantly incorrect information. I've given examples above.

If you haven't heard of IPSEA or SOS SEN, have you at least heard of SENDIASS (formerly Parent Partnership)? And is it too much to hope that you might start referring people to the charities in question now if you don't want to tell parents how to enforce the support their children need? You have nothing to lose. See sossen.org.uk/ and www.ipsea.org.uk/.

If you're not prepared even to refer parents to advice sources to help them secure extra support

not a teachers job at all, not in any way to do with us, nor would we have the information to do so, nor would we have access to it. Not our job, like I said.

Guienne

Yes, of course it is. I am not qualified to refer parents to charities. I am. Not. An. Expert. I don't give legal advice or advice about SEND. It isn't my job.

Guienne, we hve a job to do, which is run our classrooms, organise our classes, teach plan mark.

You don't seem to understand that.

You are expecting to be able to insist we undertake further tasks that are totally outside our remit, and there would be absolutely no time to do

And yet the government tells us that every teacher is an SEN teacher. It is surely your job to report what you see, e.g. that a child is not making progress, or struggles when they don't have 1:1 support, or responds well to particular strategies, or cannot communicate, or is distressed by noise and light, or is massively anxious.We have half termly SEN pupil progress meetings where we discuss the needs of all the children in our class and identify those whose progress is or has become a cause for concern. We discuss strategies that we have tried, those that have worked, those that might need tweaking. This is every six weeks. The SENCO / HT then have the responsibility of looking at the provision, allocating resources, making referrals - our EP / SALT / SPLD referrals are at least a two term wait. All these services are bought in and paid for out of the school's budget. We have termly meetings with parents to discuss IEP's, care plans etc. Parents also are able to contact us either in person or through the school's communication system. I don't think my school is particularly unusual in this.

Your only solution is telling the LA the school can't meet the child's needs. What happens to the child then?

What should happen then, Dermymc, is that there is an emergency annual review with the school making evidenced recommendations of what the child needs, whether it is more support attached to the current EHCP or a move to a specialist unit or school. The LA should then amend the EHCP to follow those recommendations, but if it doesn't, the appeal right should be used.

Which schools do not have the time to attempt by themselves. They need to support of parents, and the pot of money isn't endless no matter how many appeals you get. Appeals cost more time and money with little guarantee of an outcome that is useful.

It's a bit worrying that you think schools have the power to appeal - they don't. But what they can do is recommend parents to appeal, refer them to sources of advice and help, and support the appeal by giving statements and evidence confirming their inability to meet needs. SENDIST appeals in fact have a high success rate. Once provision is properly specified, the existence or otherwise of a pot of money is irrelevant: the LA has no choice but to ensure that it is supplied.

An appeal isn't a magic wand either. It takes fucking ages.

It takes 12 weeks - 10 weeks in the case of appeals against refusals to assess. Also LAs often end up conceding appeals when they realise parents are serious, especially when they are supported by schools, so they may be even quicker.

Guienne and claw

Don't you think that if it were that simple it would work?
It doesn't.
The money isn't there and the TAs/1-2-1s are not there.

You can't magic up what doesn't exist.

So if I have three EHCPs all saying 1-2-1 support and only 2 TAs whcih child misses out?

JimmyGrimble, I was responding to a post where a teacher said her head and SENCO would view it as a disciplinary matter if she were to give reports to the parents. Who knows what kind of reports they might be sitting on?

1-2-1 support is of very limited use, tbh.

Most studies have shown it creates a dependency and discourages independent work and lowers attainment in the long term.

A lot of parents fight for it, but I'm not sure why

pingu Some pupils have complex needs but a TA sitting next to them all day isn’t necessarily a great way to meet those needs

A TA would not just be sitting next to a child all day, or at least that shouldn’t be the purpose! The TA would be supporting whatever that child’s particular needs are and hopefully teaching them strategies to enable them to eventually work independently.

1:1 support is for specific reasons. For example my son has difficulties with auditory verbal processing. So his 1:1 will breakdown instructions, demonstrate and model how to highlight keywords, mind maps etc, etc.

Penggwyn, self-evidently the DPA breach would relate to refusing to hand over information that exists. If a teacher honestly believes that they are not able to meet a child's needs because there are inadequate resources, clearly it is their job to record that fact. If they keep it in their heads and continue failing the child, they would obviously be seriously failing as a teacher.

claire which study is this? The job of a 1:1 is to teach skills which are lacking to enable a child to work independently eventually!

Can you imagine if every single child with potential SN applied for EHCPs, appeals etc. The whole system would be even more fucked than it is now.

Approximately 20% of children with SEN have EHCPs, and a much smaller proportion use the appeal system. The number of children and young people with SEN is around 2.8% of the school population. I hardly think that's going to be a serious concern, do you?

Guienne

But as a teacher I am not privy to conversations at the level you are talking about. I have no role on releasing information to parents under the DPA. It could be gross misconduct for me to take it upon myself to do so.

I'm not an expert in SN law. I don't need to be. You keep insisting that schools appeal not me.

A lot of the parents of the students with SN I teach struggle hugely with authority and paperwork. An appeal would be well beyond their capability.

Teachers do get penalised through performance related pay if they can't meet a child's needs. (obviously his is wrong and part of a disfunctional system but it happens)

*in