Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

pingu that’s a very good point about TA’s being more involved in reviews and meetings etc. They are often the ones working most closely with the child.

A point I made upthread was about teachers blaming parents. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been accused of being ‘over anxious’! You sound like a very caring TA. Please bear in mind most parents of children with SN’s might appear a little anxious at times, when they feel needs are not being meet!

‘Over anxious’ label can be very detrimental to how seriously parents are taken and the help their child is likely to receive.

I really don’t think most of the posters who’ve defended schools on here are against parents btw - I guess my point is that “it’s very difficult” and obviously with such an antagonistic system everyone can get very defensive. In relation to the OP, I can see how that email got sent is all I’m saying - it’s frustration.

I cannot believe you are expecting teachers to do all of that. It really isn't their place. You clearly don't live in the real world of SEN provision.

You couldn't be more wrong, Dermymc.

As for teachers advising parents as to their rights, you have to be joking. We aren't bloody magic fairies that cover all societies ills.

Why? How hard would it be to refer parents to SENDIASS, IPSEA or SOSSEN? That doesn't require the skills of magic fairies. What alarms me is the teachers who do try to tell parents what the law is when it is blatantly obvious that they have no clue.

Honestly do you really not understand how difficult it is to allow for all the needs of all students. It's nigh on impossible.

But wouldn't it be easier if they have proper EHCPs with detailed and specific support as required by law, with funding attached, as also required by law? And if schools would be honest enough to admit when they are unable to meet needs, that would facilitate moves to schools that can. Yes, I know there aren't enough of them, but that isn't going to change whilst everyone accepts a system where children are failed in the mainstream.

As for your suggestion of moving classes, explain how that would work in a one form entry primary school? Or in a secondary school where students are set by ability? Why should children with SN be forced into a set outside their ability level?

If you read my post, I dealt with that. Please don't misrepresent what I said.

Dermy and Pingu if school apply for amendments to EHCP, such as more 1:1 funding so they can meet needs. If refused there is the appeal process.

Guienne

It is not my job to make recommendations about SEN provision. I would be disciplined for doing so as I am not qualified. Likewise, it is not my job to refer parents to experts. My job is to follow, to the best of my ability, the strategies with which I am provided, and to try to my utmost to meet the needs of the child in front of me. You are attempting to make me responsible for things for which I am not and cannot have held responsible. I understand it is your frustration talking, but you are expecting too much of teachers as individuals.

*be held

How hard would it be to refer parents to SENDIASS, IPSEA or SOSSEN? That doesn't require the skills of magic fairies. What alarms me is the teachers who do try to tell parents what the law is when it is blatantly obvious that they have no clue.

So, you want teachers to be experts, but you also, when they don't agree with you, want to call them clueless?

I'll be perfectly honest with you: I have never heard of the bodies you just listed. It isn't my role to refer parents to them and I have never received training on that.

@clairetree1

As a couple of posters have pointed out, you read it twice and still didn't understand - I meant DD being allowed to get to know her next teacher, by helping with activities that teacher would need to do anyway and an extra pair of hands could be useful rather than a burden.

It's a bit worrying to hear you are a teacher with so little reading comprehension.

Feel free to put it up in the staffroom, but put all of it not the snippet you quoted to misrepresent what I wrote.

@claw001, ah thanks! I definitely try to see where parents are coming from and bear in mind that kids might be using coping strategies at school. Of course it’s all so individual and specific to the particular case, so out of however many pupils with SEN I work with there is one pupil whose parents really do seem to be projecting issues onto the girl and we in school are trying to get the message across that she genuinely seems to be ok (no ehcp). But that’s one case out of about 20. Its just easy for teachers to remember those cases rather than all the ones where the parents were right I suppose.

The difficult for parents is if more 1:1 is needed in ECHP school HAVE to say it’s needed to stand any chance of getting it!

If school do not say it is needed, then parents have to employ and pay for a professional to write it in a report for an EHCP to be amended, possibly resulting in an appeal.

It is far easier if teachers and parents work together.

helping with activities that teacher would need to do anyway and an extra pair of hands could be useful rather than a burden.

Really, really, no. When you are running back and forth between a guillotine, a laminator and a photocopier, hunting down staples and backing paper, trying desperately to get a display up before lunch when your PPA finishes, as well as get that last set of books marked, looking after a child is not 'an extra pair of hands', it is a serious imposition. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly but you need to know.

If you read my post, I dealt with that. Please don't misrepresent what I said.

Your only solution is telling the LA the school can't meet the child's needs. What happens to the child then?

If refused there is the appeal process.
Which schools do not have the time to attempt by themselves. They need to support of parents, and the pot of money isn't endless no matter how many appeals you get. Appeals cost more time and money with little guarantee of an outcome that is useful.

An appeal isn't a magic wand either. It takes fucking ages.

Pingu ‘over anxious’ hits a bit of a nerve with me, as I’m sure it does lots of other SN’s parents.

I was once that parent you describe! school couldn’t see any of the difficulties I could! My son isn’t a rude, aggressive, chair thrower as the stereotypical SN kid! He is polite, well behaved, quiet, sit there unnoticed SN kid!

My son now attends a specialist school. However, back in the day, I was labelled as ‘over anxious’ and not to be taken seriously!

There are also parents (I have met them) who argue the toss their child has SN even when Ed psych reports say they don't.

But then, there are Ed psychs (particularly those employed by LAs) who claim children don't have SN when they blatantly do. There are a number of children currently in specialist schools who have a history of EPs and schools denying that they have any significant needs at all.

Dermy school saying they cannot meet needs, is every SN parents dream! If you say that, LA’s then have to provide extra funding, so you can meet needs!

Dermy 89% of appeals to SENDIST are successful!

BoneyBack, if an EHCP specifies that a child will have a dedicated 1:1 TA, then no magic is needed to ensure that that happens. At the simplest level, the parent should be referred to IPSEA or SOS SEN for advice on how to enforce the Plan.

Ideally, to save time, the school should advise the parent to write to the LA pointing out that there isn't a choice and saying that, if it is not arranged, they will take LA to court via an application for judicial review. The application will be in the child's name and therefore can be funded by legal aid, but the reality is that the LA won't risk losing in court and will almost certainly sort things out with surprising speed.

The issue with education is that it's one size fits all, expecting square pegs to fit in round holes. Children themselves, when they grow up, may not understand what they went through, as we are all unique and individual, so there is no one magic solution to fix all issues. Parents can feel that the whole system is against them and their children, just the way they can be spoken to or about, or the language used, eg child protection, safeguarding, can make them feel they are up against it. What also doesn't help is the law on attendance at school, criminalising parents if failure to attend goes to court rather than a fixed penalty notice. This needs to be reformed and made civil (a bit like someone not paying council tax). Parents just want a say!

Claw you clearly have your own axe to grind on this one and are disinterested in someone telling you the realities of the SN provision.

Can you imagine if every single child with potential SN applied for EHCPs, appeals etc. The whole system would be even more fucked than it is now. Teachers are trying their hardest in bloody difficult circumstances. Sometimes they make mistakes. We can't all be as clearly amazing as you.

The LA will do anything not to give the money though. Their pot isn't exactly overflowing with money either. I don't understand how you can't see that schools and teachers know the law. But we also know that at times it is impossible to apply the law successfully to all children.

I know that LAs will do their best not to allocate the funds required - that is what the tribunal and court systems are for, and if teachers were more willing to encourage parents to use those systems they are likely to find their local LA wakes up a bit.

I know that some schools and some teachers know the law. I also know that a frightening number don't. As I've posted upthread, there are far too many entirely credible stories around of teachers coming up with gems like "You won't get an EHC assessment unless your child's difficulties are severe" or "unless we can show we have spent £6K on his support" or "unless he needs a special school place" or, even worse, suggesting that the law somehow applies differently in their particular area. Indeed, a number of the responses on this thread from teachers demonstrate a fairly horrifying degree of ignorance, notably in relation to the C & C autism discrimination case.

If every parent whose child who needed them applied for EHCPs, appealed, and insisted on getting proper provision then the government would have no choice but to provide the proper level of funding. The problem is people passing problems down instead of up. Senco should be reporting to SLT who should be complaining to the LA who should be demanding the money they need from the government.

Don't even start the 'magic money tree' nonsense. There is plenty of money, it's just in the wrong bank accounts.

if teachers were more willing to encourage parents to use those systems they are likely to find their local LA wakes up a bit

I am not an expert in this! Trying to wear that hat would get me in serious trouble! Why can't you see this?

there is not a single pupil in my secondary school who is down for 1:1 on their EHCP despite some very complex needs and a fair bit of cash for inclusion. I can’t imagine how you’d get it, I’m not sure it’d even be a good idea as 1:1 has its own issues.

PinguDance, that's really quite worrying and suggests that your local authority is breaking the law wholesale. Essentially if a child needs 1:1 it can be put into the Plan if there is professional advice (including the school's) supporting it and, if necessary, by appealing to the tribunal. I know there are sometimes issues for some children in having 1:1 support, but there are others who really drown without it.

@claw002 - interestingly we actually have the opposite situation re. the pupil whose mum is often in touch. Her mum is convinced she is withdrawn, quiet, doesn’t have friends, needs to be taken to clubs etc. but actually she’s very sociable, chatty, gets on well in lessons. She has additional needs in numeracy but is doing fine in everything else. She seems to be doing really well at secondary school- I think it could be a hangover from primary school where she might have had more issues.