Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

My child's 1-2-1 enables him to learn to communicate, interact and be as independent as possible because that is the level he is working at. They also keep him and others safe.

Penggwyn, how does referring parents to independent sources of advice as to their children's legal rights amount to giving them legal advice?

The reality is that, if you're not prepared to lift a finger to help yourself when it comes to dealing with children with S, you shouldn't blame parents for wanting you to ensure that their children get their legal entitlement to proper support.

Guienne

Again, that isn't my job. I know nothing about those charities and it is not my role to recommend them to anybody in my professional capacity. You are being absurd.

Whilst I can see why you’re annoyed, what do you actually want to do with this information?

Do you want him to return to the school? Really? When it seems like it’s best for everyone involved that you go your separate ways, as they weren’t adequately making adjustments for him.

Did you suffer some sort of financial loss?

I’m just a bit confused about how you want to move forwards, as it seems like you have already moved on?

Also the email where she said: 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN' can be taken two ways. The first would be that you expect your son to be excused for naughty behaviour and not punished. The second way could be that you are requesting reasonable adjustments on grounds of his disability. Therefore if you say that she was being rude/taking the piss, they could easily argue back that you have misinterpreted the text and that she was actually supporting you.

so basically what you are saying is forget teaching totally, and spend our ENTIRE lives observing and writing reports.

Self evidently that isn't what I said, Clairetree. It really doesn't help your case to misrepresent what other people say. But it is part of a teacher's job description to keep records and provide reports on children in their classes with SN when required to do so.

If you're not prepared even to refer parents to advice sources to help them secure extra support

not a teachers job at all, not in any way to do with us, nor would we have the information to do so, nor would we have access to it. Not our job, like I said.

What a horribly jobsworth attitude. It would take you of all of 30 seconds to recommend a given set of parents to SOS SEN, SENDIASS or IPSEA, and clearly you have access to those names now. You would really rather leave a child with inadequate support in school than spend 30 seconds telling their parents how to remedy that?

Part of your job is undoubtedly liaising with parents. If you claim otherwise, what happens at Parent/Teacher meetings?

Claw it's generally not the teachers who lie. It's the senior leadership team.
Realistically a teacher isn't going to say "no, this child has no needs and I don't want TA in my class!". But sometimes teachers are forced into having to downplay a child's needs to a parent to stop them becoming the person the parent makes demands of knowing there's no way they can implement it without the staffing.

Slt can interpret and record things from teachers how they like. Blame a teacher child's lack of progress and blame teaching. Therefore deny need etc.

There are ways of getting salt, OT etc into the day to meet the needs of the few (end of session games, whole class hand gym, activate etc) and the can be done as class. But it's rarely specific and has to fit into all the literacy and maths demands!
But doing a 10 minute activate session which prepares your children with sensory issues for learning is no good if they are 2 years behind academically and there's no one to give them the specific teaching they need.

My ds first secondary convinced a judge he had no academic needs. Even though his year 7 data showed he was expected to make 4 points of progress and he made 2 they argued he made progress but focussed primarily on his math and computing where he's exceeding. I tried to say after 2 years he'd be a year behind, after 3 18 months etc and gap would widen.
His new school provide him 1:1 for all English and support across other subjects where needed - because his academic needs are so great.

The point is that often the lies appear as paperwork is produced to avoid showing the whole picture and protect already limited funding. Schools seem to back the la in refusals to issue EHCP and very few take the parents side at tribunal.

Parents then have to become mini educational law lawyers and dig deeper and harder to get the information they need and fight harder for support. This creates the rift you see and the frustration in parents who completely lose faith in the school.

*Boney Don't you think that if it were that simple it would work?
It doesn't.
The money isn't there and the TAs/1-2-1s are not there.

You can't magic up what doesn't exist.

So if I have three EHCPs all saying 1-2-1 support and only 2 TAs whcih child misses out?*

If you have 3 EHCP’s all saying 3 children need full time 1:1. Then LA provide the funding for 3 TA’s

Penggwyn, what qualification or expertise do you need to give people the names of charities that might help support them and their children? If you've really never even heard of SENDIASS/Parent Partnership, you need to education yourself given that they're referred to all over the place in government guidance, including the SEN Code of Practice with which teachers are supported to be reasonably familiar, and details should be given in the relevant Local Offer. There's nothing strange or subversive about this.

If your school is really as ignorant of the basics as this, you might like to suggest to the SENCO inviting SOS SEN or IPSEA in to give some urgently needed training.

Self evidently that isn't what I said, Clairetree. It really doesn't help your case to misrepresent what other people say

the trouble is you have no idea what you are saying, you have non-existent understanding or appreciation of how schools function or what a teacher's job is.

so in actual fact, this self evidently is what you are saying, you just don't realise it

So if I have three EHCPs all saying 1-2-1 support and only 2 TAs whcih child misses out?

None of them. You tell all concerned, including the LA, that you can't meet that requirement with the funding available. If they still don't fund it, you point out to the parents concerned that their child has a statutory right to the support in question and that they might like to consult lawyers, SOS SEN and IPSEA about how to enforce that. SOS SEN say that their pre-action letters have something like a 95% success rate in securing properly specified support without even having to go to court. I believe that the remaining 5% is secured by making good on the court threat.

What a horribly jobsworth attitude. It would take you of all of 30 seconds to recommend a given set of parents to SOS SEN, SENDIASS or IPSEA, and clearly you have access to those names now.

again, you have absolutly no idea what you are talking baout.

30 seconds!!!

you do realise I hope, how many charities in this sector blatantly contradict each other, the LA and the DofE ( or maybe you don't, as you actually don't realise or understand anything very much....)

It does not take 30 seconds! Think about it for goodness sake!

THINK!! please Think about what you are saying, even just a little tiny bit, you would quickly see you are talking rubbish, I'm sure

You keep insisting that schools appeal not me.

Where? I've pointed out that the appeal avenue exists, I've never suggested that schools use it. Because that would be impossible.

A lot of the parents of the students with SN I teach struggle hugely with authority and paperwork. An appeal would be well beyond their capability.

That's why you refer them to people who can help them, and also help yourself by providing supporting statements. For people on very low incomes, legal aid is still available.

Thing is, the parents probably don't want them in a mainstream school anymore than the teachers do, I know I would prefer for my son to go to a special school outright were they deal with children like my son every single day. But to get into a special school you need an ehcp, but then the bar to get an ehcp or even an assessment is so high

So then SN kids are stuck in mainstream school, not being supported like they need to be because it's so difficult to get an ehcp to get into a special school.

You just go round and round in circles, makes no sense!

My son is nearly 5, autism - diagnosed as moderate to severe, with the development age of a 2yr old, hyperactive, disruptive, speech delay - can't have conversations or answer questions etc, no danger awareness, could get into trouble in an empty room, puts things in his mouth and nearly chokes himself at least once a day, have to quite literally have eyes in the back of my head with him, & he's still in full time nappies, yet he is starting school in a fortnight with no ehcp, 31 kids in his class with 1 teacher & 1 teaching assistant...... to share between him & 30 other kids no 1-2-1 even though he's had to have 1-2-1 in nursery for 2 years, it's not going to work.

Not even sure if they'll assess him for an ehcp yet, don't find that out until a panel meeting in 6 weeks time,

He's also only allowed to do 2 hours a day for the first 6 months!! Which tbh since he's going to have no 1-2-1 to stop him climbing and breaking his neck it's probably a good thing in all honesty!!!

system is totally shit!

Those teachers complaining about how difficult things are for you, how difficult do you think things are for the parents??????

I am not a teacher, but I would not want to recommend a charity to people I work with, without knowing that the charity was okay. I can see that simply recommending a charity blindly could backfire enormously if something went wrong and the parent was not happy with that charity.

Dani I feel for you I really do. You only have one child. I have 30.

I agree with those teachers that wouldn't promote the charities. Could be dangerous.

youare I agree. I totally understand where the frustration comes from. I’m an SEN parent. Attended countless Tribunals. Had to take JR action etc, etc!

In my experience it’s the quieter, no trouble to anyone but themselves kids who miss out on provision or having needs identified. It starts with ‘over anxious mother’ as teachers cannot see what you do! Snowballs, into school not understanding why they need to follow expert recommendations, as they don’t see the difficult. In some cases a bit of arse covering, rather than hands up, I’m not understanding!

Clairetree, stop being so patronising. It's blatantly obvious that you are doing so to avoid answering the very valid points that have been made by me and others in response to some of the, shall we say, economies with the facts you have posted upthread. You haven't even had the grace to apologise to Allington for seriously misreading and misrepresenting her post.

Suffice it to say that I have plenty of understandanding of how schools work, how SEN law works, and what a teacher's job is. Your difficulty is that you seek to suggest that your experience is universal. Happily, it isn't.

Do give me details of just some reputable charities that contradict each other as to the basics of SEN law. IPSEA and SOS SEN are very well reputed nationally, both serve on bodies like government steering committees and are regularly invited to give evidence to Parliament and the DfE, and indeed IPSEA provide SEN training for schools paid for by the DfE. What would conceivably be wrong with referring people to them?

It is richly ironic that you, who apparently know absolutely nothing of that, accuse others of being ignorant.

I'm astonished that it seems to be the position of some - not all - teachers on this thread that they are not going to lift one finger to help parents, even by the simple step of referring them to someone else who can help, yet believe that it is appropriate to moan about parents who simply want their children to have the support that they are entitled to by law.

how many charities in this sector blatantly contradict each other, the LA ....

Of course charities contradict LAs, because some LAs regularly get the law badly wrong. Witness the number that have failed their SEN Ofsted inspections, and the high proportion of successful appeals brought by parents.

I am not a teacher, but I would not want to recommend a charity to people I work with, without knowing that the charity was okay. I can see that simply recommending a charity blindly could backfire enormously if something went wrong and the parent was not happy with that charity.

The teacher doesn't even have to recommend the charity, they can simply say that they exist. It would hardly be risky to give the name of the charity the government itself uses for training LAs, not that LAs necessarily seem to pay much attention to them.

Guienne

Nope. There are very clear channels to follow at my school. Going rogue and providing parents with recommendations for charities to help them argue with my employer = big breach of our procedures. Don't tell me to educate myself. Educate YOURSELF about how my remit actually breaks down and my accountabilities.

Danni. When is your ds 5? When did the application for EHCP go in?
The la has to by law provide a FT education from the term after the child's 5th birthday and they have to, by law, inform you by 6 weeks after the EHCP application if they will assess or not. They cannot "it's going to panel" as a delay as Panama are LA own policy and not part of the legal process.

So this is easily solved.

Dear Send officer,

Thankyou for the latest correspondence on x date via y rouge informing me the panel will consider an assessment for my ds EHCP on x date.
As you are aware you legally have to inform me if you will assess for an EHCP no longer than 6 weeks after the application. You've confirmed you received the application on X date and therefore legally you must respond my x date.
I'll await your correspondence.

Ds is due to start school in September and despite him receiving 1:1 for x amount of hours a week at Y setting this will not continue in school. Therefore I've been told he can attend for 2 hours a day only from September for 6 months.
Firstly this is discrimination as he should be afforded the same opportunities as his same aged peers. Secondly ds is 5 on x date and legally must be provided FT education from X term.
Thirdly as ds is being excluded from school due to his needs he meets the legal test for an EHCP as he has needs that cannot normally be met in MS school.

Having sought legal advice I am aware i can ask for a judicial review if you don't follow the correct process.

Regards Danni

Let them know from day 1 you won't be pissed about. All the time you let them illegally exclude whimsy waiting for them to decide if they'll follow the law or not there is no incentive for them to stop!

Dermymc so you have 30 children like my son then do you????

Thank you for your reply, youarenotkiddingme I'll read through properly later and reply. X

Not 30 like your son, but 30 including your son and probably at least 10 with issues over and above what is "normal" developmentally and emotionally.

I don't enjoy the feeling of being unable to cater for everyone's needs, but sometimes it is impossible.

And all children have needs.