Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

'They are professionals but are still only human. Comments will have no doubt have been made where the teachers felt they were in a safe space - their email inbox - but GDPR has now taken away that arena of "free speech".'

Whilst folk are 'only human' most of us have had to think carefully about language we use in the workplace. Certainly, I would never put a moan about a colleague (should I feel I have to make one, which is very rarely the case) into an email and that's been how it is for decades.

No accommodating and understanding SN issues is discrimination by the back door.

Claw001

That's alright. As I am not a Head or SENCO I am conscious that I am not subject, either, to their particular pressures. I assume the issue is funding, as you say. But as funding has never been tighter, it is hard to condemn anyone other than the government for this mess.

With a SN child, your eyes are eventually opened (normally by doing the old data request) to the corruption, toxic, dishonest world, which teaching and education and LA's are.

Kind of soul destroying.
It certainly Destroyed my faith in human beings.
I'm certainly not the same person as I was pre children.
Kind of sad really?

Parents need to be more aware of the effect of cuts on school provision. Teachers are being asked to fill out assessments and paperwork for SEND needs and Edpsych that they are not qualified to make judgments on. Inclusion was done without any real training for teachers.

Accessing support for students, be it for ASD, depression, psychological issues is incredibly difficult because the agencies providing these services have been starved of money. Quite cunnning really as it doesn’t show up as slashing school budgets. But it does have a knock on effect on students and parents. This is only going to get worse unless the government finds some money somewhere to invest in LA Children’s services.

Sleepyblue, agree with you and pp re talking down, like we are idiots. Gets my goat badly.

I had a beauty. Social services meeting.... said to the chair, that this whole thing was one of the worst cases he'd see in 25 years of social working, and then I introduced him as a relative, recently retired Head of neighbouring county social services.
Atmosphere changed.
Truly beautiful.
I still snigger to myself.

@Guienne

I cannot believe you are expecting teachers to do all of that. It really isn't their place. You clearly don't live in the real world of SEN provision.

As for teachers advising parents as to their rights, you have to be joking. We aren't bloody magic fairies that cover all societies ills. Honestly do you really not understand how difficult it is to allow for all the needs of all students. It's nigh on impossible.

As for your suggestion of moving classes, explain how that would work in a one form entry primary school? Or in a secondary school where students are set by ability? Why should children with SN be forced into a set outside their ability level?

@pengggwn you have explained the issues very well.

Not just money that's the issue. Although admittedly that's the core problem.
It's the dishonesty. People lying all the time, falsifying documents, perverting the course of justice.

Lying at tribunal.
I always remember the SN poster, years ago, who was at court, tribunal, opposition left their file in the toilet.

Showed years of failings, lying, shocking.

That's not just money.
How they sleep at night, God only knows.

peng I totally agree. Funding is the LA’s responsibility.

With regard to the OP’s emails, I have had much, much worse in subject access requests to both school and LA. The difficulty seems to be lack of knowledge about SEN (not the teachers fault I might add) which leads to the teacher blaming parents for difficulties and vice versa.

All roads lead to assessments by experts so that needs can be identified, understood and appropriate provision. Another vicious circle, parents are expected to become experts and understand not only their child’s needs, but Educational Law too!

@oblomov18 there are some people in the system like you describe. However the overwhelming majority of teachers I see are trying their damn hardest and still feel like they are failing. The lack of money means every penny has to be argued for and then it is in the LAs interest to behave the way you have described above.

There are also parents (I have met them) who argue the toss their child has SN even when Ed psych reports say they don't.

I have a very troubled little boy in my class from September. He lacks self esteem, has a very troubled home situation and as a consequence has melt downs. His TA's (two of them) have suffered bites, scratches, head buts, hair pulling and been sworn at daily. He is a lovely child (I had him in a previous year group) but his behaviour seems to be escalating. For the last three weeks of term we asked for, and got, permission for him to spend one lesson in our room to get re aquainted and to learn our expectations and routines. He has coped with this really well. He has no diagnoses yet. CAMHS are involved (finally) but in the short term his behaviour is likely to continue, as his self esteem really is at rock bottom so that any perceived mistake in his work, any remark by another child, him not having his needs met quickly enough can send him spiralling to the point where he may need to be held.
I understand all this and myself and my TA have worked really hard to put things in place to help us stop things escalating, including allocating our small group room to him as a calm space.
But ... we have 29 other children to support as well - 10 of whom have some form of SALT need, 2 of whom have ASD, 2 of whom have ADHD. We will be getting extra help in the mornings (TA) who will assist with SALT and interventions but even so we know we are going to struggle to meet everyone's needs. And if I'm honest I know that at some point I am going to be hurt because I can't be in seventeen places at once. But what I really dread is one of the other children being hurt because then it is my job to try and explain to their parents what has happened. My school is really supportive of children with SEN and supportive of staff in trying to meet everyone's needs but I am really quite worried about how we will all cope with this.

oblomov do you think it’s deliberate lies and malice from teachers? Or total lack of knowledge about SEN?

For example a few years back when I first applied for then called Statement, I found emails on school file of phone conversation between SENCO and LA officer. In which they agreed to report me to child protection 😮 for applying for an assessment!

At the time I was fuming etc. However once calm and looking it objectively I realised they just couldn’t see what I could, as they had no knowledge of ASD. They didn’t know what ‘masking’ was. Therefore a child who could hold it together in school, only to fall apart at home, problem must be home!!

OP

1. YANBU.....can’t say this enough.

1. Teachers get feck all training in supporting kids with SN. My niece had an afternoon spent learning about autism in her training. However she has DA as a cousin and knows about ASD. She’s moving sideways into a pupil referral unit from September so that she can better support kids who need it. Her opinion on how SN are managed in mainstream is shocking.

1. Is it the fault of teachers? No it isn’t in most cases as they have inadequate training and poor funding. Some are appalling in attitude though and having worked in a school and say in a staff room there are some shocking attitudes and a total lack of understanding from some.

1. EHCPs are a nightmare to get and parents end up fighting for their children. That’s the nature of parenting a child with SN, constant battles to get their needs met in education. The two years I spent fighting to get my DS out of MS and into a special school were traumatic and exhausting on top of everything else.

OP rage, complain if you have to but if your son is now out of that School try and put it behind you and move on. You don’t need the additional stress.

"That was the case under the previous Data Protection regulations as well"

Under the previous DPA they were allowed to charge you for replying to subject access requests. I think only up to £10 for normal requests, but up to £50 for medical records, which should now be free.

Jimmy He lacks self esteem, has a very troubled home situation and as a consequence has melt downs

With due respect, he is undiagnosed, needs not yet identified or causes of behaviours known. I think it’s unfair to blame his meltdowns 100% on his Home life.

Guienne

You seem to think that an EHCP will make my life easier in the classroom and that it will magic up the extra support that the child needs.

The truth is that it just doesn't.

Once again
I know that its a legal document
My school Knows that its a legal document
The parents know that its a legal document
and all the kids know their rights

But it won't magic up a TA if we don't have enough, it won't magic up a smaller class size or move another child with SEND because their EHCPs contradict each other.

Parents need to be more aware of the effect of cuts on school provision.

This is not parents' concern! Its emotional blackmail of parents, saying

"Put up and shut up!"

Each child has only one shot of education, and parents are only seeking what the law tells them, their child is entitled to! Furthermore, if parents are living with a child, who comes home and kicks off in violent behaviour towards the siblings; or is crying and suicidal, then parents cannot just ignore it!

If teachers and schools do not like parents seeking what their children need and are entitled to, why aren't the teaching unions and schools making more of a fuss about this to the DfE? We see open letters from heads, complaining about unfair funding or whatever; but none telling how it is for SEN (that I can recall)

There are also parents (I have met them) who argue the toss their child has SN even when Ed psych reports say they don't.

Who pays the educational psychologists or speech and language therapists, who do the assessments? The LA, who then have to fund what provision the child is assessed as needing? What is the temptation then - to instruct those professionals either not to do proper assessments (ie just do an observation in class, which is not going to find dyslexia or whatever); or do assessments, using tests, which are outdated and discredited, and only look at narrow sections of cognitive abilities?

I won't talk about many of the children I have come across through the years, due to having a DD in special provision out of confidentiality; but I will say that I looked at DD's Y2 educational psychologist's assessment the other day - which reported she had a moderate receptive and expressive delay. This implies her language development is abnormal, albeit delayed and eventually she will catch up. In fact, the leading speech and language therapists and specialist language schools assessed her as having a moderate receptive language disorder and profound expressive language disorder. One said, DD was one of the most profoundly impaired children she had seen in over 40 years! Another said, she would be a laughing stock in mainstream as her language difficulties were so extreme and her answers would be so far off target! Goodness knows where DD would have ended up, if we had not obtained independent reports ourselves!

Boney there is no magic involved! If a child needs a full time 1:1 then it should be included in the EHCP. If it’s not, then it is school responsibility to apply for it.

With due respect, he is undiagnosed, needs not yet identified or causes of behaviours known. I think it’s unfair to blame his meltdowns 100% on his Home life.
Claw I wasn't and I'm not going to go into any more detail here for obvious reasons. I have said very clearly that his triggers are around self esteem and his perception of himself.

This thread definitely shows why it’s so important for schools to work with parents and be honest about what the schools can provide -it’s shameful that parents face such an adversarial system. I really don’t see why it has to be that way but that’s a recurring thought working in schools anyway.

I genuinely believe we do our best in my school (I’m a TA) and I think the Senco is fab and has really fostered the inclusion ethos. I have an idea of how hard it is for parents to navigate the system. However I think teachers/TAs do sometimes have their reasons to be sceptical about diagnoses and SEN. In OPs case it seems like they should have handled it much better and an EHCP is valuable in that it is unavoidable. When kids have SEN but not and EHCP it can be a bit greyer. It must be awful for parents to be accused of FII and I’ve certainly never felt that strongly about it - but I do know a couple of ‘anxious parents’ that I take with a pinch of salt. I don’t ignore them but there is definitely a difference in what we see. Ideally we’d have the time to sit and talk about it but as Pengwyyn describes it just doesn’t happen. eg. I’m a TA and despite the fact I’m in class with some kids 20+ hrs a week I am often completely left out of discussions about how best to work with them. Drives me mad.

If it’s not, then it is school responsibility to apply for it

The LA will do anything not to give the money though. Their pot isn't exactly overflowing with money either. I don't understand how you can't see that schools and teachers know the law. But we also know that at times it is impossible to apply the law successfully to all children.

Penggwyn, where did I say I didn't believe you? If the SENCo and school won't follow your reports and recommendations, give them direct to the parents so they can use them in tribunals. Be prepared to be a witness if necessary. But what is significant is that you seem to be blaming parents for wanting their children's needs to be met when the reality seems to be that the blame lies with the school and the local authority.

And 'advising parents as to their child's rights'?? I am a teacher, not a legal expert.

Then refer them to people who are, e.g. SOS SEN and IPSEA.

@claw001 there is not a single pupil in my secondary school who is down for 1:1 on their EHCP despite some very complex needs and a fair bit of cash for inclusion. I can’t imagine how you’d get it, I’m not sure it’d even be a good idea as 1:1 has its own issues.

Guienne Giving reports etc direct to parents against the wishes of the HT or SENCO would lead to disciplinary action in most schools.