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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

671 replies

FidgetyFingers · 15/08/2018 20:18

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children Angry.

AIBU?

OP posts:
staydazzling · 16/08/2018 11:05

can soo relate 5000kkallax, the comment you made about failing but failing quietly relates to my eldest who is a placid aspergers type and has never had any in class support.

MissContrary · 16/08/2018 11:06

@serbska, they shouldn't, but it's not the childs or parents fault (yet it feels like parents get the blame!). Like you say, its all about cost cutting.

There are so many children that should be offered sen schools but aren't. Inadequate ehcps are written, hence why the funding isn't enough for what's expected, LAs implement unlawful banding, which again leaves funding shortfalls. Many parents don't know how to get an sen school or even that they can fight for one. They accept everything they are told as gospel.

To get an EHCP should be simple and take 20 weeks. In reality to get decent support often looks like this:

School say child will never get an ehcp as they don't meet the LAs unlawful criteria.
Application is made and some LAs run over the statutory 6 week decision time
Decision is made on issuing and its no, the panel have decided your child doesn't meet another 3/4/5/6 unlawful criteria. Again some LAs over run the statutory time line of 14 weeks.
Mediation is thrown out, wastes weeks of times, parents still told no
Parents appeal to the tribunal (takes about 10 weeks). Some LAs concede pretty quickly because they know they haven't followed the law some concede at the last possible minute, wasting more time.
LAs then assess, but refuse to actually do the necessary assessments due to further unlawful criteria
Parents complain, but lengthy complaints processes mean its too late to do anything as the ehcp process has moved on by the time it's resolved, often by the LGO!
As the necessary assessments and resulting information aren't sought, there isn't an accurate picture of the childs needs

From here either:
The EHCP is then refused because of not enough evidence to say it's required because they didn't do the right assessments
Parents either appeal and are forced to pay privately for the assessments the LA refused to do OR
Appeal and the tribunal order the LA to do the assessments. Appeals take 12 weeks, if assessments are done this is at least another 6. More time wasted whilst the child is inadequately supported.

An EHCP may be awarded/or is now forced by the tribunal
The plan is vague and inadequate. LAs refuse to make their ed psychs write proper detailed, specific info. LAs will try to ignore private reports and recommendations.
Child is chucked into an unlawful (there's a theme here!) funding band meaning funding likely won't cover the provision needed at some point, if not straight away.
Plan names mainstream, parents want sen school
Parents mediate, LA tell parents they can have sen school if parents do transport emotional blackmail
More time is wasted
Patents hit tribunal, again, to get the right school/to get transport/to get private assessment recommendations and advice included. Another 12 weeks out the window.
Tribunal makes orders, if it's to solidify the ehcp provision more time goes by whilst another plan is written
Finally a decent ehcp is done.

This is a typical ehcp process for many sen parents who fight for proper funding and provision in their childs plan. Without this an ehcp will likely still not adequately meet a childs needs as the LA only think about ££ and cost cut wherever they can get away with it I hope it answers some of the questions about why some kids don't have one or why it doesn't adequately fund a TA.

Our time would not be cheap were we doing all this stuff as a job ie a legal rep. But as we are parents our time is not valued at all. Of course some parents do pay a legal rep to do all this for them. Most cannot afford that and many give up as they believe whatever school/the LA tell them and do not know the law says different.

idonthaveatattoo · 16/08/2018 11:06

In the right place this time.

I’m a teacher. I’ve worked for arsehole Heads in chaotic schools. I’m believed when I speak about that here.

Yet parents aren’t (or kids.)

SnuggyBuggy · 16/08/2018 11:10

Problem is a typical secondary school is big, impersonal and with little supervision. It's not great for anyone but how you can make that environment suitable for someone with complex needs in the absence of a 1to1 is anyone's guess.

MissContrary · 16/08/2018 11:10

can soo relate 5000kkallax, the comment you made about failing but failing quietly relates to my eldest who is a placid aspergers type and has never had any in class support

Same here. But if a child doesn't cause any bother they are obviously 'fine' GrinHmm

Pengggwn · 16/08/2018 11:13

Guienne

You seem to be conflating the teacher with the SENCO. I don't have the authority to do any of those things.

Pengggwn · 16/08/2018 11:15

origamiwarrior

Because the teacher may not be in a position to do any of those things until her summer holidays. The question for me is, what reason did the school give for saying no?

Claw001 · 16/08/2018 11:20

Yanbu this is why it is standard to do subject access requests to schools when applying for EHCP assessments, those kind of emails can be used as evidence as to why an EHCP is needed.

I found even more shocking emails in my SAR Angry however they helped to get my son his EHCP.

You could always make an official complaint if you have the time and energy.

FidgetyFingers · 16/08/2018 11:21

AmazingGrace16 yes it is very odd that a child with SLD was left without an EHCP until Yr10 isn't it? I didn't diagnose himself BTW. There was an NHS Paediatrician, a Clinical Psychologist, a Speech and Language Therapist who were all involved in his assessment.

His school never tried to get him an EHCP despite whining that he was taking up a disproportionate amount of teachers time. I applied myself twice. Automatically refused twice until the LEA quickly changed their tune at my 2nd attempt a few weeks before Tribunal when the school finally gave them the info they'd been requesting after me kicking up a massive stink with the Head. Head upped the anti on threatening exclusion after that.

DS was also diagnosed very late as his Primary wrote him off as 'naughty' (not violent naughty more not following instruction and hyperactive). Despite me pushing for assessment since Reception.

You know, I would have been as ignorant as you perhaps, if I hadn't gone through it.

OP posts:
staydazzling · 16/08/2018 11:22

exactly, im having issues with my younger one who can in contrast to eldest displays PDA behaviours, and zero attention span, impulsivity etc ive bern trying to get help since he was 3, he is performing under as he cannot physically sit still long enough to do his work, theyre could be underlying LD noone knows as no ones looked yet, wheels are slowly turning due to HV perserverance. but yeah one highly anxiously boy who says hes dumb and stupid Sad returning to school soon starting at a disadvantage, who is 6 yrs old Sad

SilverDragonfly1 · 16/08/2018 11:30

@youarenotkiddingme are you the parent who went through hell and high water to get your son into his twin brother's school? You deserve a medal if so (and even if not!).

Claw001 · 16/08/2018 11:31

Why is it odd that a child with SLD didn’t have an EHCP! They don’t dish them out like smarties!

A lot of pressure is put on schools to meet needs from within their own budget. And parents very often get turned down and have to appeal every step of the way! Assessment refused...appeal, can take a year. Refusal to issue an EHCP....appeal another year. EHCP issued doesn’t contain much....appeal and so on and on!

Also very costly for parents, experts reports to enable you to appeal, witnesses to attend Tribunals who you pay for their time!!

Yea, just get an EHCP Hmm

Guienne · 16/08/2018 11:42

Penggwyn, you do have that authority. You presumably write reports for annual reviews and in relation to requests for EHCPs. What stops you telling the truth? Or advising parents as to their children's rights?

5000KallaxHoles · 16/08/2018 11:47

5000 ds original secondary school told me in his 6th week there they have 'expertise in asd' and basically they know what's best for him and neither need or want my input.

@youarenotkiddingme - thankfully I struck gold last year and by the end of it the class teacher (who was fucking amazing as a teacher - I'm seriously jealous of how good she is... and I've told her that) was "you know so much more about this than I do - you're educating ME" and stuff I'd requested that helped DD2 mysteriously found itself popping up in other classes as they realised it was easy and worked well over the course of a few weeks. SENCO was pretty shite for us (the quiet compliant kid falling through the cracks) so we'd kind of cracked on with sorting things ourselves and done pretty damned well with it . Not as much hope over this year's class teacher who for various reasons has got off on a less than favourable footing with us - but it was the end of term and everyone was knackered and stressed and I understand that so will see what September brings.

Pengggwn · 16/08/2018 11:51

Guienne

I tell the truth. It generally isn't heard. I don't make decisions about the level of support the school is able to apply for. I am telling you the truth - why are you choosing not to believe me? What on earth do you imagine would be my motivation for deliberately not applying for support for a child?

Pengggwn · 16/08/2018 11:52

Guienne

And 'advising parents as to their child's rights'?? I am a teacher, not a legal expert.

youarenotkiddingme · 16/08/2018 11:52

Silver no but that Mum does need a medal!
I had my own ridiculous battles with a school run by politicians Wink you know the "we can do this, have this, have been trained in this" talk without actually any "doing".
A school who did provide the Elsa he needed but who decided despite him having same sessions for 5 years (also at previous school) he couldn't cope with the amount of time when another need was highlighted (he'd previously had support with this at juniors and a SAR proved it still existed) and put 20 minutes for that need into the hour slot. He'd previously had 1.5 hours a week to meet that need.
The judge at tribunal even asked them about it and the couldn't answer - and he wouldn't let them wheedle their way out of answering despite their desperate efforts Grin
They told the judge "we didn't want him to leave and we could meet" judge responded along lines of 'if you could meet need why has he been unable to attend for 5 months due to anxiety and if you didn't want him to leave why are you here as witnesses for la disputing need for EHCP?' Again they had no answer beyond "we'll Camhs diagnosed the school anxiety - we didn't see it and they didn't ask our opinion".
Judge did ask why a MH professional would ask the advice of a teacher about a child's MH when they can diagnose it based on their own clinical judgement and assessments".

And so it went on for hours like this! And I won Grin

SilverDragonfly1 · 16/08/2018 11:58

Yup, medal for you too!!

Claw001 · 16/08/2018 11:59

Peng are you saying you raise your concerns to SENCO or HT about not being able to meet a child’s needs and are not listened to?

trulybadlydeeply · 16/08/2018 12:00

I would be angry too OP, not specifically with the emails, but just the fact that he hasn't had the education he needed or deserved. The school themselves should have been pushing for an EHCP.

Obviously you cannot go back in time and change things for him, but you can raise his experience with all relevant bodies (the LA more than anybody)and push for change so it doesn't happen to others. A child with SLD, who is never going to be able to take GCSEs, is always going to struggle in a MS environment.

My DS, although younger, is in the SLD stream of our local special school. It has now been renamed as the Practical stream, because the focus is on learning practical skills in preparation for adulthood, and for living as independently as possible. Lots of cooking, shopping, road safety etc.

I hope your DS is now receiving the support he needs. Does he have a social worker?

Pengggwn · 16/08/2018 12:02

Claw001

Yes. Every teacher - I imagine - will tell you the same thing. They are told be senior leadership that it is possible to do the impossible. They are told by parents that it is possible to do the impossible. As a teacher I can continue to say I don't agree, but the further I push in that direction, the more likely I am to get fired. I am a good teacher. I am frequently asked to do what everyone knows can't be done.

youarenotkiddingme · 16/08/2018 12:03

Peng is right. We don't always agree over education threads but it's clear she's a dedicated teacher.
Teachers can't magically provide the support a child needs if they require 1:1 support beyond the usual cursory check they understand - which all pupils can and do get.
It was one of the things I used in my EHCP application. That how can anyone in the class be accessing their right to quality first teaching etc if the teacher is dealing with My ds literacy needs (going through meta cognitive thinking checklist), social needs - supporting him in group work and sensory needs (providing sensory activities if he isn't calm) and teach 29 other pupils the curriculum.

Teachers can ask slt for extra support all they like. Doesn't mean they'll get it and senco, not teachers!, apply for EHCP so they can't do that either.

It's really important, imo, that whilst we fight for the rights of send pupils we focus on what's possible. Blaming teachers for a failing system won't get the government to ensure their sendcop statutory document is followed legally or eg the government to provide funding to match the law.

Interestingly I've been told this week the only way to ensure the la follows the government set out law is to take them to court. It's like any law where people take a moral stance to follow it.
Whereas we have a constabulary and criminal justice system to ensure the laws of the land are upheld there is no such establishment in education.

Sleepyblueocean · 16/08/2018 12:03

I think a lot of ( probably most) teachers won't know about a child's rights as regards sen provision. Schools are fed local authorities unlawful blanket policies.

Being talked down to does absolutely piss me off though and I've had the immediate change of attitude when they find out my former profession.

Claw001 · 16/08/2018 12:14

peng that’s disgraceful and I appreciate your honesty.

As I said upthread, the responsibility lies with the LA. They do put a lot of pressure on schools to meet needs from their own budgets and not apply for EHCP or extra funding.

In the OP’s case, as is evident from the emails she has seen, it’s the child who suffers as schools would rather illegally exclude a child, than apply for EHCP!

Claw001 · 16/08/2018 12:19

youare I totally agree teachers are not to blame for the lack of provision. The OP is also getting a hard time on this thread, for not having an EHCP! Not the parents fault either!

It’s a vicious circle, Teachers are not experts in SEN’s, yet the LA rely on them to flag up SEN, as it’s cheaper than expert assessment!