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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

671 replies

FidgetyFingers · 15/08/2018 20:18

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children Angry.

AIBU?

OP posts:
HateIsNotGood · 18/08/2018 18:58

Even on MN Boney there will be many that concur that some dc are misbehaved and 'naughty' just because they are.

The good thing about this thread is that I think that posters are finding points of agreement on the difficulties that both parents and teachers of SN and/or SEN face.

Generally, the most obstruction comes from the LEA - and that is where from whatever perspective you come from - the frustrations of our mutual difficulties should be directed, and together.

Voluntary organizations and charities have played a pivotal role in providing advice to both teachers and parents against the continual malpractice of LEAs.

As a parent I have often advised Teachers and Sencos that they should have a look at some (eg: Special Needs Jungle). At least my 'professional' standing as a Parent couldn't have got any worse.

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/08/2018 19:05

HateIsNotGood

One of the good things about being a teacher in a secondary school is that I get to see the many faces that the children put on for different teachers, cover supervisors, TAs, cover teachers, SLT etc.

It is frankly amazing how differently some pupils act when they have someone different in the room.

As has been said pupils are people too, this means that they have likes and dislikes, how they respond to these depends on so many factors that it would be silly to try and list them.

HateIsNotGood · 18/08/2018 19:20

Oh yes, Boney I agree, as someone who didn't become a parent until I was 39 I watched the many facets of the many children/teens/adults that my friends had. And how they would be different when they were alone with me (I can give the look too) and not be so shitty to adults.

My probs with ds were distinctively a primary school problem and a very distinct lack of provision for in the county (large Devon - poor North, rich South - we were/are in the North). This is a bit better now than it was 10 years ago.

Ds finished his last 2 years in mainstream (both ds and I wanted this) and his teachers attest to his good behaviour.

We're just waiting for his GCSE Results and it's to the local excellent College for a Btec.

So, job done everybody!! Thank you to the helpful Teachers, there were even one or two helpful LEA staff too, and all the good people - We Did It. Can someone bring me a cup of tea please I'm fecking exhausted.

Allington · 18/08/2018 19:35

What value does an unqualified opinion have?

Why would you express an opinion to a colleague unless you expected them to take it seriously? So you try to.influence your colleague to accept your opinion that you are not qualified to give...

Allington · 18/08/2018 19:40

X's Mum expressed concern about, or became upset when discussing...

Fine

X's Mum over - anxious about

Beyond your competence to judge.

And boy, you like to judge!

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 19:41

Allington

Read what I said. I said if asked for my opinion by a colleague, why wouldn't I tell the truth?

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 19:42

Allington

Well, that's just your opinion, isn't it. You are entitled to it, but I can't see why it should change my decision-making in any way.

Thehogfather · 18/08/2018 19:46

I fully understand why parents are beyond frustrated with the system, but scapegoating peng in particular or any other teacher doing their best in very demanding circumstances isn't going to solve it.

There are teachers, slt, sencos etc who have bad attitudes towards sn, and those who are generally crap just like any profession. By all means they should be made accountable. But that is very different to taking out frustration on teachers that happen to be on the thread and have done nothing but point out the reality of their role.

In regards to the original aibu/ behaviour, it's impossible to say without context. I know that in many circumstances the system and/or bad slt are the cause of bad behaviour, but in some cases dc are just being dc, and sn aside are just as capable of pushing boundaries.

And I agree that parents don't always have the full picture. Eg the poster who was refused when she wanted her dd to help out with the new teacher. The school are hardly going to say 'no because Jack, Jane and Kate need similar and we can't take all 4' or 'Ava couldn't cope with the disruption to routine' 'Alfie is currently doing all those things because of his needs' 'Mrs p might be off on maternity/ sick leave in September'.

And what I think many mn posters forget is that not every parent is both as capable and willing to fight for their dc. God knows educated middle class people have to fight the bad parenting accusations, so how much chance do you think an uneducated/ deprived parent has? And meanwhile their dc are still in a classroom needing support or even 1:1 without any extra funding or staff. That doesn't mean the teacher is responsible if they can't always balance all those needs in the way a good system would allow them to.

Sorry if that sounds unsympathetic, I don't intend it to be. I just disagree that apportioning blame to individual teachers who are doing everything they can and just happen to be on mn is remotely a helpful way to solve the systems failings.

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 19:50

The school are hardly going to say 'no because Jack, Jane and Kate need similar and we can't take all 4' or 'Ava couldn't cope with the disruption to routine' 'Alfie is currently doing all those things because of his needs' 'Mrs p might be off on maternity/ sick leave in September'.

This is exactly the point. Sometimes there are considerations the parent is not aware of and, more to the point, does not need to be made aware of. If, in my professional judgement as the teacher, I don't think something is going to be possible or advisable, I expect to be able to tell a parent that this is the case, without having to go through the full post-mortem every single time. I am responsible for all my students, not just one. Sometimes needs conflict.

Allington · 18/08/2018 19:53

If my opinion is worthless, why is yours of value?

If asked your opinion, why not say you are not qualified to say whether a parent is reasonably concerned or over anxious?

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 19:55

Allington

My opinion isn't automatically of value. The SENCO is as free to ignore it as I am to ignore yours. That isn't the question. The question is whether there is any statutory or policy reason I shouldn't give it. And there isn't.

Allington · 18/08/2018 20:03

Solo although there are some bad teachers, SENCos, headteachers etc parents should just accept what they are told without questioning it?

Really?

Every single educational professional is fulfilling their remit to the highest professional standards?

Amazing.

Allington · 18/08/2018 20:12

Opinion without qualification = prejudice.

I don't expect the way DD is treated by her school to be based on prejudice. Funnily enough, whenever a we qualified professional has done an assessment, the opinion givers among the teachers have been shown to be wrong. Sadly doesn't stop them from giving their opinions the next time...

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 20:14

Allington

You are trying to tell me that any opinion about anything from a person not qualified (in something - I don't know what at this point) is prejudice? Do you know what prejudice means? Confused

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 20:16

Let me help you anyway, as it might speed things up. Prejudice means a preconceived idea. If I see you behaving in an anxious manner when small things happen, it isn't prejudiced to infer that you might be an over-anxious person. It is just basing an opinion on experience.

Xenia · 18/08/2018 20:27

From the first post it looks like the school did nothing wrong and I suspect have bust a gut to help this child. If parents in general would try always to support the school whatever happens that tends to work best for everyone even in cases where they think the school is wrong.

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/08/2018 20:34

Allington

Why are you having a go at people that on this thread have said that they are not professionals in SEND and will pass you on to the people in the school that are?

Allington · 18/08/2018 20:41

Let's take a hypothetical example.

Class is going on a theatre trip. Freddie's parent wants to discuss it. Freddie has epilepsy. Teacher doesn't know (they aren't experts, no reason why they should) that strobe lighting can trigger seizures.

Teacher, when asked for an opinion, says Freddie's parent is over anxious about a routine off site experience.

Or, Freddie's teacher says parent asked lots of questions about the lighting.

Can't you see the difference?

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/08/2018 20:47

Allington

Maybe in your hypothetical example the parents should just say that he has epilepsy and they are worried about the lights used in the play and not dance around the issue.

Hypothetically of course.

Allington · 18/08/2018 20:48

I am very happy to deal with the people qualified to know DD's needs. I do have a problem with people saying (rightly) that they are not qualified but still expressing an opinion (which, as they are not qualified, only expresses a prejudice)

HateIsNotGood · 18/08/2018 20:49

Allington this is going to be one of many issues that is going to be arising with your dd's education over the next few years - as every parent knows (on MN anyway) choose your battles. This isn't it. You came up with a good idea that would work for your dd, but in the scheme of things the school said "no". So retreat and take the next academic year and new teacher on face value at the start of the new term. Start positive.

Completely agree with Hogfather and I have a great deal of respect for pen for staying here and sticking to her point of view. I'd like to think that by doing so she has taken differing points of view on board.

The only post I disliked was several pages ago when a poster urged Pen on to keep up the fight. What fight? Hopefully not against parents because that really doesn't help the child at all does it?

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 20:50

Allington

Yes, in one case the teacher is right, in the other, the teacher is wrong. In both cases, the teacher is entitled to an opinion, if asked for by a colleague.

However, as the teacher of a child with epilepsy, if neither the child's parent nor the SENCO thought to tell me that the child's fits might be triggered by strobe lighting, I would be the one complaining. I am not a doctor - give me the information I need to protect your child, please.

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 20:51

which, as they are not qualified, only expresses a prejudice)

Which, as we saw from the actual definition of prejudice, isn't true.

Allington · 18/08/2018 20:52

Well, hypothetically they did, but the teacher didn't believe them so ignored it as parents being overprotective and exaggerating.

Pengggwn · 18/08/2018 20:53

Allington

I'm confused. Are you saying, in your hypothetical, that the teacher has been given the medical information, but is choosing to ignore it?