Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

Claw001

Well, if my opinion is asked for - and it might be - I'll give it. I don't usually volunteer it as I am not the expert. The SENCO doesn't need my opinion, just my observations, but will often ask for it anyway. We both know it is just a personal view.

A lot of EBD behaviour is caused because an SN hasn't yet been diagnosed or if it has that the SN isn't being handled appropriately.

My son's EBD behaviour is now non-existent through years of careful management - at home, out of the home and at school. His initial EBD behaviour (which was carefully managed by boundaries) totally escalated when at the age of 6 we moved and he started a new school.

And then the nightmare began - I was a bad parent and created a chaotic environment causing my son's behaviour (completely untrue) any concerns that I had that I suspected he had ASD were met with undisguised disbelief.

The HT was not in school most of the time leaving it to a quite immature 26 year old DH and the Senco with a total of 2 years teaching experience.

The opinions of these people were included in circulated information for years. And there were plenty more along the way.

After moving County and another 2 years of LEA-led buck-passing and ds finally ended up in an Indie SS with an ASD Unit. The staff in the Unit worked wonders and had the resources to do so.

Even so, this Indie SS (one of the best in the country) had absolutely no idea about the relevance of the Statement (subsequently EHCP) and used the Annual Review as purely a School Report session.

Tbh I just let them do that as it got the cheque from the County signed. A few years later we moved back to the County and area we had originally moved from. And another little saga.....

So, everyone can know the law, what ever else they know and think they know , but the reality is - it is very, very rare that the right thing is ever really done.

That first HT that literally laughed in my face about my ds having ASD? He's now a Lead SND Inspector for Ofsted. Gotta laugh really.

HateIsNotGood

Of course it can be, but that doesn't mean it is. As a teacher I have a responsibility not to dive in feet first, offering parents hope that their child's behaviour will be diagnosed as an SN and they will be offered support if they go to X charity, particularly when they have been advised otherwise by my SENCO\Head. It may well not happen, and I am not qualified to tell them otherwise.

And if you read upthread Pen I agreed with you.

peng this is what I meant about not having it both ways. You say it’s not responsibility to refer parents to independent advice, as you are not an expert. However, it is your responsibility to pass on your opinion of home life being the cause of child’s difficulties!

I was with you, until the last part!

And on Claw's last point in regards to 'perceived' home difficulties (usually over-egged gossip) I also agree.

Claw001

I am not trying to have it both ways. My SENCO would be well aware that it was my personal opinion, not professional advice. A parent wouldn't necessarily have that awareness and would take my opinion as an expert view. It isn't the same thing.

By the way, I am not saying I am not allowed to offer my opinion to a parent. I can choose to do so if I wish. I am saying I (generally) would choose not to, because of the possible impact on me.

I think it's true that we parents should be aware that a Teacher has Managers (SLT/HTs) and very often they have to toe the line. It wouldn't be doing their work environment or career prospects any good if a Teacher were to disagree with them.

I've known more than one Senco who had their personal views about how the HT was managing my ds - luckily they knew that I knew they were on my side and would rather remove ds than rock the boat. As that's a no-win situation.

Hi. Watching thread with interest. I don't know how mainstream teachers manage it, well they sometimes don't do they? I've taught in sn schools, primarily asd for the last 11 years. Despite maintaining good relationships with students and parents and getting good results consistently I handed in my notice to leave this term. I realised I could no longer keep up with curriculum change and meet my students needs, not enough hours in the day... I didn't want to be the teacher who started letting them down. And that's with smaller classes and more ta support. I'm not saying all teachers are great with sn, I've worked with plenty who just don't get it, but I am saying it's very difficult to balance everything even in a smaller setting.

peng the difficult is personal opinions from professionals do carry some weight and can start the Chinese whisper from professional to professional!

For example ‘mum is over anxious’ can be written on school file and shared. The fact is unless mum has a diagnosis of an anxiety disorder or any issues relating to anxiety and agreed this info can be shared, it has absolutely no business or purpose being there or being said. Teachers are not qualified to a) diagnosis anxiety issues or b) comment upon them! It serves to taint professional opinions and is detrimental to the help and support the child is likely to receive.

Realise that's not really the point of op but wanted to stick my oar in 😀

HateIsNotGood
A lot of EBD behaviour is caused because an SN hasn't yet been diagnosed or if it has that the SN isn't being handled appropriately.

The problem is that some children choose to misbehave.
This adds another layer of problems in classrooms as if a child chooses to misbehave enough it becomes a SEND.

This is a different ball game to those that have an EBD or misbehave due to SEND or mishandling of SEND.

AND even those with a SEND can choose to misbehave.

BoneyBackJefferson

It doesn't. When I met with the Early Support Specialist Teacher for my son, she advised me of SENDIASS. Did she have to tell me? Well, no, she was not responsible to make me aware. Should she have told me? Yes. This is the LA's go to organisation for impartial advice and information on SEND that they are required to set up as per the Code of Practice. The support is there to help schools and parents. It is not meant to be a battle.

Claw001

If a colleague asks for my personal opinion based on information at my disposal, they can have it. There should be no "Chinese whispers". That isn't what sharing information in a professional environment about a child and their welfare is called.

If, in my opinion, a parent seems unusually anxious, I can tell a colleague so. Nothing prevents me from doing that. I am not pretending to have diagnosed them, and obviously I need to ensure I am speaking truthfully, but that is not comparable to giving my personal views to a parent, with whom I do not have the same professional relationship, when they are being differently advised by a colleague with the relevant expertise.

I think we are getting our definitions muddled up!

Not all SEN’s are due to disabilities or diagnosis. For example a child who has suffered a bereavement or a trauma might require a level of SEN, such as therapy for example.

Boney if a child chooses to misbehave enough. I like to think all children want to behave, if they are ‘misbehaving’ to the point of needing intervention, there is likely to be an underlying cause, I think is the point. Whether that be home life, medical, undiagnosed disabilities etc.

peng sharing info should be based on facts or opinions based on facts, not perceptions.

Yes Boney that is very true and I don't disagree at all because it isn't necessarily distinguishable in the first place. Unfortunately, it can be the default position that the student chooses this behaviour or it is due to their home environment and there isn't an underlying SN at all.

My son actually doesn't have EBD he has ASD.

It was the 'Chinese whispers' that extrapolated. I found out like OP through an FOI request of school records exactly what they thought although I obviously suspected anyway.

should have said default position of teachers and schools

The best chinese whisper - an authorized 3 day trip to Euro Disney turned into - Miss Hate has emigrated to France with Master Hate

Claw001

All opinion is based on perception. I perceive you to be anxious on a regular basis, therefore it is my opinion that you are anxious. I perceive you to be anxious because of relatively small things, therefore it is my opinion that you are "over-anxious". Providing I make it clear to a fellow professional that this is nothing but my perception, I don't see the problem.

Claw001

I like to think all children want to behave, if they are ‘misbehaving’ to the point of needing intervention, there is likely to be an underlying cause, I think is the point. Whether that be home life, medical, undiagnosed disabilities etc.

Nor all children want to behave, it is an comfortable fact that MN doesn't seem to recognise.

When I started teaching I believed that all children wanted to learn, all children wanted to behave and all they needed was the correct encouragement.

That is still my default setting at the start of each lesson.

But the fact remains (even anecdotally) that some children misbehave not because of SEND, not because of un-diagnosed SEND, not because of a poor home life but because they can.

I would love to give you examples but because of my job I can't.

HateIsNotGood

Unfortunately, it can be the default position that the student chooses this behaviour or it is due to their home environment and there isn't an underlying SN at all.

that is why every lesson should be a brand new start.

Sorry I’m not ignoring, I have company, need to sign out

magicroundabouts

It shouldn't be a battle, but another poster has repeatedly misinformed those on the thread that a "teacher has a duty of care to refer parents to external agencies" *paraphrased) this is incorrect.

Claw001

enjoy your evening.