Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

Dani getting an EHCP assessment is the easiest part. I use the term easiest loosely! It will probably be refused as default, until you Lodge an appeal.

The legal criteria for assessment is the child MAY have SEN and MAY require provision.

Dermymc so you have 30 children like my son then do you????
Nobody is saying this. This is getting very adversarial and whilst I can see people's frustration I think that many people on this thread are blaming the wrong people. It is Local councils who are acting as gatekeepers to funding and not schools.
In answer to the above, I posted earlier about the make up of my next class. 10 x SALT needs, 2 x ASD, 2 x ADHD, various social and emotional needs and one child who is regularly violent towards other children and adults. I have myself 2 TA's in the morning and 1 TA in the afternoon. The TA's will be deployed on interventions (as will I) for a large proportion of the day. My school is very supportive of SEN and we try to meet every child's needs. But seriously - How?
School's have to take a balanced view in order to meet the needs of every child. I say this as the parent of a child with severe dyspraxia.

I don’t see why parents and teachers cannot work together to ensure needs are met.

I have been a school governor for many years and, sadly,we have excluded pupils with SEN. Every single time the school and governors have been upset and did all that we could to make sure that the pupil got help going forward.

During the exclusion hearing we expected the school to detail every adjustment that had been made before arriving at this point.

Hand on heart I can say that not once did I think the school had let the student down. They usually had been let down but by the system. Our SEN department was amazing. They fought very hard for students to get EHCP and sought funding streams from everywhere. We employed a psychologist out of school funds because local support was non existent. The LA. repeatedly dragged their feet regarding funding etc.

Schools are just not in the financial position to give each child what they need. Is it right - no. But is it the school's fault - no.

Each child receives £4000 funding (roughly). Schools are expected to meet SEN provision up to a certain amount so potentially we were spending 2 or 3 pupils' worth of funding on one child. Sometimes more. Particularly if a child needed 1:1 support in class but the LA refused to fund it. This is just untenable.

As a parent I would be fighting for my child to receive whatever they needed but schools have to fulfill their obligation to every child. They cannot spend all of their budget meeting the needs of 100 students with SEN and then spend nothing on the other pupils.

Again, as a parent you might think it reasonable that your child is repeatedly late to class, or repeatedly disruptive. You might think that it is only eight for the teacher to accept this, to wait for them to settle or to constantly stop the lesson to accommodate them. But what of the other 29 students? Those students have the same right to an education and all of those parents will be complaining too.

The fact is that the government has continuosly cut funding. They have closed special schools and PRUs claiming that most children do better in main stream school. This may well be true but only with adequate support, funding and expertise. Conveniently the government has ignored this part. Main stream schools are not capable of giving individualised teaching and support. They do not have the staff or funding.

Please don't misunderstand me. I agree that students with SEN don't get the support that they are entitled to but I think your anger is misdirected. It should be aimed at the government for severely under funding SEN education.

@pengggwn

In the last couple of weeks before the end of the school year? When the activities are tidying up, finishing off etc. When it can be scheduled at a point where it is convenient. Which the friends and family I have who are teachers say would be perfectly straightforward for any competent teacher.

It's almost funny how this thread has shown exactly what parents of children with SN face.

Teacher 1 is flabbergasted at my suggestion - without having bothered to clarify what I am saying and getting it completely wrong.

Teacher 2 still insists it is impossible because the very idea of having an extra child (who is quiet, compliant and likes to help) while tidying up is a huge imposition. Even though it would make her life - as well as DD's - 10x easier in the new school year.

FFS, I'm not even asking for something that costs MONEY

Allington

I don't think you understand what schools are really like. There are no weeks (in my school) where the main things to be done are tidying up. None.

Inclined to agree with Clairetree1 - no-one is perfect in teaching in my experience. They are struggling to help every child, SEN or not.

Try and put this experience behind you, I'm sure none of the teaching staff want anything but the best for your child.

@penggwn

Sounds like a very disorganised school compared to the teachers I know then... state sector, pretty average areas, some primary some secondary.

I'm sorry you struggle so much.

Allington

😂

Do you think two or three weeks where the only thing happening in a classroom is 'tidying up' is GOOD?

Jesus.

Allington Of course it's possible. We did it this year for one little boy who joined us for the first lesson of each day to get to know our rules and routines and his new classroom. He brought some work with him but joined in with my class for most of the time. It was fine.

Dani I feel for you I really do. You only have one child. I have 30.

You do not have thirty and that is an incredibly patronising thing to say to a parent of a child with SN. You have a job where you teach 30 children. The children are there for six hours a day, 39 weeks of the year. If you are too sick to work, you can take a day/several days off. You can leave that job and seek a new job elsewhere with different children. You can walk away. You aren't there before and after school, you aren't there overnight, you aren't there at weekends or in the holidays. You can shove your "I've got 30....".

Each child receives £4000 funding (roughly). Schools are expected to meet SEN provision up to a certain amount so potentially we were spending 2 or 3 pupils' worth of funding on one child. Sometimes more. Particularly if a child needed 1:1 support in class but the LA refused to fund it. This is just untenable

Are you talking about the SEN notional budget? Which every school is given.

schools are expected to fund the first £6000 of any needs for children with SEN from their own budget. They have already been given an SEN element, ie SEN budget on top of their base funding to do this with.

The idea is they have to use 'their budget' to fund SEN, as any SEN budget previously was not ‘ring fenced’ for SEN and could be used for anything not relating to SEN.

Then children who have an EHCP the school is responsible for funding the first £6,000 from their SEN budget of the provision in the EHCP which equates to 12.5 hours of support assistance per week.
The LA will allocate any additional funding over and above this amount identified to meet the child’s needs. For example if child needs 25 hours, school pay for first 12.5, LA pays for the rest.

It’s in schools and the child’s best interests to apply for the extra funding that an EHCP brings, if a child needs it!

@youcantstop nice attitude you have towards teachers there.

Yes it is my job. However its very different to the job a lot off staff joined 10+ years ago. Choosing to leave isn't that easy either.

Do you not accept that having 30 children (a third with SN) is difficult to manage?

SEN element of budget is not enough compared to the number of students with SEN.

Youcan'tstopthesignal
You can shove your 'I've got 30 ...
Oh dear.
Once again.
30 children in class.
10 x SALT needs
2 x ASD
2 x ADHD
Several social and emotional needs including one child who reacts violently.
Granted I don't go home with them but - I am responsible for all their progress, I have targets to meet upon which my pay progression and even my job depends. I am responsible for all the planning, resourcing and assessment of their learning.
As I sad before lots of us also have children with SEN and do understand the frustrations and upset involved. But come on. Can you not see how this might be a difficult balancing act?

Do you not accept that having 30 children (a third with SN) is difficult to manage?

I do accept that it's difficult but it is not the same as parenting a child with SN which your comments implied when you said youveel bad for Dani having one SN child but you have 30. You are not responsible for those 30 children 24/7, you aren't the one lying awake at night worrying if they'll ever live independently or about the suicide statistics for adults with their particular set of SN, you're not the one navigating the minefield of professionals to try and get them a diagnosis, get them help, get them what they need, you're not the one getting filthy looks on the bus or in the street or at the shops because your child is having a meltdown, you're not the one having people smirking or laughing at the sight of your child stimming in public or having to explain that him chanting "for god's sake, die!" is echolalia rather than an actual threat and he just happens to have siezed on a rather unfortunate phrase. Looking after SN children is your job, not your life so trying to one-up Dani and play a game of "who has it harder" by saying you have 30 SN children is patronising and failing to acknowledge how difficult it is to raise a SN child.

Dermy, I totally agree! Which is why it is extremely important that EHCP’s are applied for, when necessary, when extra funding is needed.

@penggwn

Of course not. But we're talking about 15 minutes here and there towards the end of the school year. As various friends and relatives who are teachers, plus @JimmyGrimble on this thread have confirmed is perfectly do-able without the sky falling in. It comes down to an openness to new ideas and a willingness to listen to parents and children.

Or, JimmyGrimble 's even better idea - taking their own work and doing it in the other classroom. Which DD already does when she gets distressed as the teacher of another class is happy to have her when she's anxious and self-harming (hardly ever happens now, as she has got used to her current teacher - and when she getting anxious imagines what current teacher is saying in other teacher's voice which she finds soothing!).

I will suggest it next time and watch the school's collective mind implode with the thought

*by saying you have 30 SN children as opposed to her one

Allington

What I said was it might be doable. It depends on a number of factors. It certainly wouldn't be doable during my PPA. It might be doable for short periods or individual lessons, but that would depend on what we were doing, the support available, the other children in the room etc.

I am saying you need to listen to whatever reason they gave you. What was the reason, by the way?

The crazy thing is, I have been a professional fundraiser, and managed one of the first successful million pound fundraising campaigns in the state sector.

I have offered those skills to the school on a voluntary basis, and not been taken up...

But then they would have to stop the whingeing, moaning and emotional blackmail approach to having children with mild SN.

Or, JimmyGrimble 's even better idea - taking their own work and doing it in the other classroom.

You are suggesting the new teacher doubles up her own work with being in a support role to your DD in another classroom?

If you are, I don't believe I can reason with you.

I have offered those skills to the school on a voluntary basis, and not been taken up...

Well, I for one am shocked.

A child might very easily join their receiving class for storytime, handwriting, golden time etc. Sorry I can't see how this would be such a big deal.

JimmyGrimble

It might not be a big deal. Then again, it might. The classroom might already be full and safety might be a concern. Other children might be affected by having less of the teacher's time. It depends.