AIBU to wonder why Corbyn hasn't got the boot yet?

[marsbarsandtwix]

After all this recent stuff. Please could we have someone else and make labour electable again. Why is he still there and do we think he still will be for the forseeable?

He hasn't been 'given the boot' because the membership (all sections) have overwhelmingly, democratically voted for him in two leadership elections, and the vast majority still support him. If there were to be another leadership challenge, I've no doubt he would win again.

So, given these are party's rules, whether we like them or not, how do you envisage this whole getting the boot thing would work OP?

So it's ok for the Tories to borrow but not Labour. Ok.

Whether or not to borrow and increase debt is not a decision anyone can make until the deficit is gone.

Stop assuming people are too stupid to understand this.

The real crux here is that nobody supporting Jeremy Corbyn has any answers to questions about his disgraceful behaviour, this is emphasized every time someone says "but what about Boris, what about the NHS, what about the Cuban missile crisis" etc.

How does anyone expect that more of the country will vote for him over time when he places even his enthusiastic supporters on the back foot, reduced to transparent whataboutery? The man is crippling the Labour Party.

Er Flowers

As a woman and mum of 2 dds the most important topic is self ID so please don’t patronise me and tell me there are more important things to worry my fluffy head with.

And I can clearly see why you admire corbyn

No idea who to vote for now as no party represents me.

The real crux here is that nobody supporting Jeremy Corbyn has any answers to questions about his disgraceful behaviour

Disgraceful behavior?
What i see is the media create stories about him that are not true.

He & the Labour party want to halt austerity (which costs money over the longer term) stop the cuts to IHT and corporation tax, have a life long educational service, build far more council houses, stop the cuts to womens refuge's and negotiate with the EU without a shit load of red lines that make any deal almost impossible!

i happen to believe that he should step aside because the media has already succeeded in convincing a large section of the population that he is some kind of communist who would turn the UK into a Marxist state and have us all working in the fields.
People should take the time to read Labour parties manifesto instead of reading the 'Mail.

Agree Jas - I don't bother posting on Corbyn threads any more because it's too exhausting, and all the 'cult' rubbish really gets me down. If he were to step aside though, and his successor were to pursue the same manifesto, I don't think anything would change from the media, and they would be further emboldened (if that's possible) by having brought a left-leaning leader down. Any challenge to the status quo won't be tolerated.

I haven't seen any disgraceful behaviour from him. He's not perfect, I've often felt frustrated by his responses to things, and I don't think he's got every single call he's ever made absolutely right - but disgraceful behaviour? No.

There's plenty of pro-Corbyn misinformation on this thread. I mean at him being anti-austerity when the 2017 manifesto kept every welfare cut and freeze imposed by the Tories while slashing takes for people on 80k for example. There was also the interesting tactic of deliberately quoting only part of his MS article about the wreath-laying. I wonder what the next couple of sentences might have said?

But all this aside; in the argument for Corbyn being popular, why are only Labour's polling results ever shown? Corbyn has his own personal polling results. Would it not be better to use those stats to back up his supposed popularity? They do relate directly to him after all.

taxes for those on 80k, not takes. Stupid predictive text.

Last week I met a lady who is trying to look after her adult son, he has paranoid schizophrenia, and the relentless cuts have resulted in his support being cut to one session a fortnight. Her local Labour candidate has been trying to help her get more support (the Conservative MP isn't interested), and when Corbyn visited her area he visited her (he's spending his summer visiting constituencies). Because he has empathy, he can sit down with a women who is at breaking point and he can listen and give her some hope for the future.

If supporting that makes me part of a cult then so be it. I'm proud to be a member of the cultofgivingadamn.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/22/labour-given-10m-more-than-tories-last-year-says-electoral-commission

If this isn't testament to Corbyn's popularity I don't know what is. Party membership is higher than it has ever been, donations higher than any other party by a long way.

at him being anti-austerity when the 2017 manifesto kept every welfare cut and freeze

That's not true. The manifesto pledged to freeze the roll out of UC until the numerous flaws could be fixed. Though not stated in the manifesto Labour have specified that they would reverse the removal of the severe disability premium. They pledged to reinstate the WRAG component for ESA claimants, and to scrap the sanctions regime. They pledged to reinstate housing benefit for young people, and to reverse the cuts to bereavement payments. Then there's the bedroom tax, which they pledged to scrap.

Where do you get your duff information from?

Rubbish, Bombadier. Labour were going to plough ahead with welfare austerity. It's all in the manifesto, as well as in numerous analyses such as that by the IFS. That's where I got my duff information from .

(Ps - party membership is irrelevant to Corbyn's actual popularity. What are his personal poll ratings? There's your answer)

Labour Party Manifesto says UC will be reformed and redesigned immediately, providing dignity for those who cannot work. It says:

"Poverty in Britain is rising due to the Conservatives’ attempts to balance the books on the backs of the poorest. They have slashed social security over the last seven years, leaving more people in poverty, subject to a punitive sanctions regime, and reliant on food banks.

Labour will act immediately to end the worst excesses of the Conservative government’s changes. We will:

Scrap the punitive sanctions regime
Scrap the Bedroom Tax
Reinstate Housing Benefit for under-21s
Scrap cuts to Bereavement Support Payment.

The cuts to work allowances in Universal Credit (UC), and the decision to limit tax credit and UC payments to the first two children in a family, are an attack on low-income families and will increase child poverty. Labour will reform and redesign UC, ending six-week delays in payment and the ‘rape clause’."

There's more, much more, obviously, but it doesn't indicate a 'ploughing ahead with welfare austerity' at all. Quite the opposite.

(Corbyn's) spending his summer visiting constituencies

Interestingly, his henchman Chris Williamson is doing the same, apparently urging mandatory reselection in areas held by moderates: www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/09/labour-mp-chris-williamson-democracy-roadshow-mandatory-reselection

This is an individual of whom I have considerable experience, and given his attitude to anyone who dares to disagree in even the mildest way, I can't help wondering how the visited MPs will feel about receiving him ...

How is Chris Williamson Corbyn's 'henchman'? Is he a criminal? Is he threatening violence? What's this 'attitude' of which you speak? Without evidence it's hard to take you seriously Puzzled.

OyWithThePoodles - lip service not backed up by their financial plans, manifesto or independent analyses. How are they going to reverse welfare austerity while not only not putting any money in but actually making us in the poorest 20% around 7% POORER than the Tories are? Those unfortunates on 80k need their tax cuts I suppose.

Why not look into the subject a little more deeply, OyWithThePoodles - I find it can be quite illuminating

You can believe me or not about the level of viciousness and bile I've witnessed - it really doesn't matter to me, but I hope for your sake you never have to experience the same

How is it mere lip service when it's in the fully-costed manifesto?

Great video on why austerity doesn't work here too:

labourlist.org/2018/08/watch-labour-video-explains-why-austerity-doesnt-work/

Absolutely no need to be patronising Puzzled. I asked you to illuminate your insinuations and you've chosen not to. I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but 'henchman' struck me as a little off.

Williamson is in favour of mandatory re-selection, which, if he himself were a candidate in your consituency, presumably you would support? Given that he's some kind of dangerous character who shouldn't be running for public office?

John MacDonnell's favourite term for everything is 'fully costed'. So just what does that mean??

Fully costed? They know what it will cost and how it will be paid for? We hear that phrase so much because 'How much will it cost and how will you pay for it' is only a question asked of politicians when the question of spending that will benefit ordinary people is raised.

A more interesting question might be asking why this Government is literally spending more to stop people getting the benefits they're entitled to than those benefits themselves would cost ....

The manifesto was costed but not funded. However, that does not change the fact that it didn't address welfare austerity.

Nevertheless, I'm still interested in a comparison between Labour's poll ratings and Corbyn's personal ratings. Is he really popular? The real crowds he's stood in front of, such as Glastonbury, weren't there for him.

marsbarsandtwix Its unlikely. Because of the McDonnell amendment. Even if JC pops his clogs tomorrow, the hard left will always be able to get a Britain-hating loon onto the ballot.

I asked you to illuminate your insinuations and you've chosen not to

Actually, I'm avoiding personal details because of my experience of how the guy operates. I've no doubt at all that, were he to find any such details on here, he'd be straight onto MNHQ threatening legal action ... and seeing how quickly threads disappear when the litigious get involved, I'd rather not compromise them

And FWIW I certainly wouldn't support him being deselected. For me, it's better that who a party choose to represent them is seen, even if their choice frightens the hell out of me