AIBU to wonder why Corbyn hasn't got the boot yet?

[marsbarsandtwix]

After all this recent stuff. Please could we have someone else and make labour electable again. Why is he still there and do we think he still will be for the forseeable?

The narrative of blaming the far right for the Brexit vote and all the problems of the country is really offensive to all the decent working class people who thought about the issues and how they had been affected by the EU and voted accordingly

I've not heard anyone blame the far right. The far right has become more popular since the referendum. The referendum was mired in xenophobia, dog whistles and anti immigrant sentiment. This cannot be denied. How much thought people gave (regardless of class) into voting leave is open to debate. Certainly people believed lies like more money for the NHS and better pay. I'd feel like abit of mug if that was me.

*fault

But voters don't need to take responsibility, much as we'd like them to. They need to vote.

Labour needs to provide a credible alternative. If they don't, they won't be voted in. And we can be frustrated and angry about that, but complaining we've got the wrong electorate won't change anything, will it?

If in the last 3 years he's failed to get his message across to disgruntled Tory voters, how likely is it he's ever going to manage it?

You do realise that some people will never vote for a different party?

He's appalling

Labour needs to provide a credible alternative.

Thats subjective. Many people would argue that a "centrist" isn't credible. Its about tangible change not merely "power". Otherwise we are back to "there's nobody to vote for, they are all the same".

You do realise that some people will never vote for a different party?

Er, yes

But there are lots of floating voters

Including the ones Labour lost to the Tories and UKIP in previous elections

The party has to persuade voters in marginal seats to change allegiance from Tory to Labour

How else do you propose Labour get a majority?

Thats subjective. Many people would argue that a "centrist" isn't credible. Its about tangible change not merely "power". Otherwise we are back to "there's nobody to vote for, they are all the same".

OK. So how is Corbyn proposing to persuade Tory voters to vote Labour? What's the strategy to convert floating voters, to get a majority and try to effect tangible change?

It's subjective TO THE VOTERS. The measure is not subjective though - it's did they win the bloody election!

Unless your goal is just to have the right shade of red in the party and to get rid of all the centrists. Which is fine, but I just can't see the point of a political party that would rather whine from the sidelines than compromise and take power.

OK. So how is Corbyn proposing to persuade Tory voters to vote Labour? What's the strategy to convert floating voters, to get a majority and try to effect tangible change?

I'm not a campaign strategist nor a member Labour party so how can I be qualified to answer that? The country either accepts that the things it moans about - everything from the state of the railways to de-industralisation are self inflicted and adopts a new approach or it gets more of the same. Maybe some people just like moaning.

I find the LP completely dismal and the momentum crowd completely unbearable.

I don’t know what to make of the anti-semitism stuff, but what I’m hugely enjoying is watching their own obsession with identity politics come round and bite them on the arse.

Which is fine, but I just can't see the point of a political party that would rather whine from the sidelines than compromise and take power.

All the whining comes from the "centrists" - this is a battle between a real socialist alternative (that could actually offer leavers some of things they want - prospects, better pay, better jobs) or more of the same (creeping privitisation of the NHS, unaffordable housing).

Ghost he can do no wrong by you, can he? And nothing is his responsibility. I wish you were my boss...

What is the point in the LP even existing if the media/the voters are so intractable?

a real socialist alternative (that could actually offer leavers some of things they want - prospects, better pay, better jobs) Yet his failure to get behind the remain campaign is partly the reason leave won, meaning it will be nigh on impossible to deliver any of those things even in the unlikely situation that he wins an election. But that's ok, because Brexit is all the Tories' fault...

The floating voters are the ones JC should be focusing on to win their vote. He may have set followers who will vote for him no matter what and he's unlikely to turn a right wing voter but those in the centre could be the deciding factor in a win or loose campaign.

I'm not a campaign strategist nor a member Labour party so how can I be qualified to answer that? The country either accepts that the things it moans about - everything from the state of the railways to de-industralisation are self inflicted and adopts a new approach or it gets more of the same. Maybe some people just like moaning.

Well you're the one who posts a torrent of pro Corbyn messages on any thread mentioning Corbyn. You must presumably have some idea of the Labour policies, and some thoughts about how Corbyn can feasibly best try to secure a majority?

You keep posting about neoliberalism and the MSM - but what is the Corbyn approach to winning a majority?

What does he propose to do about Brexit? What's his proposed policies for navigating the exit from the EU? What are the messages that are going to persuade floating voters in marginal seats to switch to Labour? You're a fan of Corbyn. You might not be a party strategist, but you must surely have some thoughts?

Yet his failure to get behind the remain campaign is partly the reason leave won, meaning it will be nigh on impossible to deliver any of those things even in the unlikely situation that he wins an election. But that's ok, because Brexit is all the Tories' fault...

Leave won because people believed lies and every counter argument was met with cries of "project fear". Who was or wan't on the remain side is irrelevant.

How the hell can you not blame the Tories for Brexit. They made it, they own it. Them and those that supported it.

Was interested to see Victoria Derbyshire address some of the claims made against Jeremy Corbyn while addressing Mandy Blumenthal's claim that she was leaving the country (again) due to anti semetism. This from Twitter.
twitter.com/the_awakend/status/1029685536951345152

Part of being able to lead to a victory involves being able to swing the press to his side, being able to appeal to non-labour voters

While this is very true, another vital task for an opposition is to actually do some opposing - only I don't see much of that either

And if JC's not able to work with right-wing press, then find someone who can. After all, part of effective leadership is being able to work with those who don't agree with you and that's another ability that just doesn't seem to be there

"What does he propose to do about Brexit? What's his proposed policies for navigating the exit from the EU? What are the messages that are going to persuade floating voters in marginal seats to switch to Labour?"

Corbyn doesn't want anything to do with Brexit. That's why he projected a luke warm campaign because he didn't want to win.

Ghost he can do no wrong by you, can he? And nothing is his responsibility.

^ this. It's quite scary andTrump supporter esque.

All the whining comes from the "centrists" - this is a battle between a real socialist alternative (that could actually offer leavers some of things they want - prospects, better pay, better jobs) or more of the same (creeping privitisation of the NHS, unaffordable housing).

OK, so how will Corbyn persuade these Tory voters to change allegiance from the Conservatives to a socialist alternative?

I've seen lots of posts about whining. What do you suggest is going to win Corbyn the next election?

Ghost he can do no wrong by you, can he? And nothing is his responsibility.

Ghost ran away from the most recent thread about Corbyn and anti semitism once actual tangible evidence started to be posted. Funnily enough after a torrent of rabid pro Corbyn posts, s/he went totally silent.

I support Corbyn's policies because for the first time in my life we have something outside of the disasterous neo liberal consensus. A neo liberal consensus coupled with austerity that has given us inequality, low pay, unaffordable housing, curtailed union rights, privitasation, third rate infrastructure etc etc.

You either support an alternative - it doesn't have to be Corbyn at the helm - despite the cries of cultist- it could be anybody. Its an alternative, a new discussion. Otherwise you get more of the same, another generation of moaning about how shit things are.

If that is too "lefty" for you I'd have settled for Ed Milliband but apparently he couldn't eat a bacon sandwich properly. Oh and according to the gutter press his father - Jewish fled Nazi Germany, served in the Navy and contributed to British society actually "hated Britain".

You get the government you deserve.

The socialist alternative (corbyn) will never win because too many people feel it would be taking a step backwards. You could go back to the 70s, blink into 2018 and there standing in front of you is Jeremy Corbyn.

He's relying far too much on voters being too young to have been born in the 70s or to not have looked too far into reading about old labour to gain their vote.