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Original poster

Do you think it’s appropriate for adolescents to be sentenced to life without parole? **MNHQ WARNING details of murder mentioned**

127 replies

Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 08:34

Was watching an interesting documentary recently about a 14 year old in America who got a life without parole sentence for stabbing someone to death. The crime was really brutal and he definitely needed to be punished harshly for it, but I couldn’t help thinking that not giving him the chance to ever move beyond what he’s done is a bit much?
Sentencing in the UK is pitiful (the Jamie Bulger case is one that sticks out in my mind - even though the boys were very young when they murdered him, they still shouldn’t have been let out when they were).
It seems to me like America is sometimes too harsh with their sentencing and the UK are too lenient

OP posts:
ClaryFray · 15/08/2018 08:47

Some cases are given life, or more accurately a time frame for minimum time served. No guarantee they'll get out after there minimum time depends on behaviour and evaluations.

Children are tried as children in most cases, half sentences and the such like.

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 08:50

@clary the one I was watching was about a boy sentenced to life in a Florida at 14 and he’s 34 now and tried to appeal his sentence but they said no and he can’t try again until he’s at least 54. His case is very high profile over there and the judge made it clear it’s unlikely he’ll ever get out as it would cause too much uproar. He almost received the death penalty at 14

OP posts:
WillowRose79 · 15/08/2018 08:53

Is this Joshua who killed Maddie by any chance? Who killed his 8 year old neighbour and then hid her under his water bed until his mum found her. He 100% deserves that life sentence. If he could be that malicious at that age and kill AND hide the body for that long that is some deep rotted evil.

Janni01 · 15/08/2018 08:56

Why should he get off for killing someone?
If you are willing to kill and take someone's life then damn well accept the punishment you're given.

I quite frankly don't care what age he was when he murdered, he took someone's life, so in my opinion should never see outside a prison again. Take a life, lose all your freedom for life.

HelpmeobiMN · 15/08/2018 09:00

America has a real problem with trying children as adults. It’s especially prevalent for black males. It isn’t good.

MummytoCSJH · 15/08/2018 09:01

No, I don't agree with it.

Janni01 · 15/08/2018 09:02

Can I point out for lesser crimes like petty theft etc, go ahead and try them as kids and deal with them that way.

But serious crimes like, rape, murder etc need dealing with seriously and giving them a couple of years in juvy isn't fair on the victim who has essentially lost their life.

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 09:05

@willow yes that’s the one. And I totally agree that his crime was really horrific. I just find it interesting how completely different the sentencing is over here. If he had committed that crime in the UK then he’d have been out a few years ago.

@janni do you think everyone who has killed someone in the UK should be given life without parole? I’d like to think younger people who commit crimes could be eventually rehabilitated after serving a long sentence (30 plus years) and receiving a lot of therapy, but I’m sure some are just a lost cause and will always be a danger to society.

OP posts:
nellly · 15/08/2018 09:05

The person he killed will never have the chance to start over or move beyond it so while I appreciate that 14year olds can't always make good decisions at least he can keep in touch with his family and read or take courses etc still better option than his victim got Confused

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/08/2018 09:08

But serious crimes like, rape, murder etc need dealing with seriously and giving them a couple of years in juvy isn't fair on the victim who has essentially lost their life. There's a lot of middle ground between "a couple of years" and "life". The OP made it clear she felt the 8 years of so served in the Bulger case was too little.

JagerPlease · 15/08/2018 09:08

I dont agree with trying children as adults as the fact is they aren't adults and their brains aren't developed in the same way. I also generally don't agree with life without parole except in the most severe cases (more akin to the UK system) as it ignores the possibility of rehabilitation at all, and makes prisoners difficult to manage as there is no incentive to undergo courses or behave etc. I believe life without parole should be reserved for those where there is no chance of rehabilitation at any time in the future, and I don't believe you can ever say that about a child

WilyMinx · 15/08/2018 09:09

I think if he'd been tried as an adult, he would have received the death penalty, so life without parole is lenient in comparison.

FermatsTheorem · 15/08/2018 09:11

America has a big problem with this. I don't think it's representative to take one particularly horrific crime as an example to say "this sentencing practice is okay" when in fact it's a widespread, systemic and racist problem in the criminal justice system.

Years back, when I lived in Michigan for a bit, I went to see this documentary at a screening with a Q&A with the director afterwards:
Juvies

It's not just kids being sentenced for murder, but kids being caught up in "mandatory life if it's gang-related", or "three strikes" rule sentencing. Black kids are far more likely to be tried as adults than white kids, and (as the director pointed out) are screwed without access to decent legal representation (she made the interesting point in the Q&A that families will often borrow/scrape together every last dime they can to pay for a lawyer, because they are trying to do the best for their child, not realising that the shitty lawyer they can afford is actually less likely to do a decent job of defending the child than the public defender would - the stats bear this out).

Then there's the whole issue of "cui bono" - prisons in America are privatised, and big business (I read that a third of bargain-priced furniture in the US is made in prisons, for wages that are a pittance).

LeftRightCentre · 15/08/2018 09:11

I think it's entirely appropriate for certain individuals, yes.

Moominfan · 15/08/2018 09:12

He didn't just kill her, he hid her body and then helped the family look for it. Punishment needs to fit the crime

eddiemairswife · 15/08/2018 09:14

No civilised country should have the death penalty.

Veterinari · 15/08/2018 09:15

The person he killed will never have the chance to start over or move beyond it so while I appreciate that 14year olds can't always make good decisions at least he can keep in touch with his family and read or take courses etc still better option than his victim got

I guess it depends whether you view a prison sentence as purely punishment, or whether you take the view that rehabilitation is possible. Of course a prison sentence is better than being murdered, but if we stick to the eye-for-an-eye mentality we get stuck in a system where the death penalty exists, false convictions result in lifetime imprisonment or Death row sentences, and enormous prison populations occur. Of course not all offenders can be rehabilitated but i’d Like to think it’s a possibility for some - especially child offenders.
The USA prison population is enormous and often incredibly harsh for relatively minor offenders

mistermagpie · 15/08/2018 09:15

I saw a documentary about that crime and was horrified. I really think 14 is old enough to know right from wrong. Ok, there will be some complex ethical or moral scenarios that require more maturity, but any 14 year old surely knows that killing somebody and concealing their body while watching people search for it is wrong.

I think it does need to come down to whether the person is a continued threat to the public and often that isn't known when they are sentenced. In the case of at least one of the bulger killers we know things now which suggest he will always pose a risk. Unfortunately these things weren't known at sentencing. So maybe there shouldn't be a final sentence delivered while the criminal is so young? Rather one that can be adjusted as they develop? In practice I know this wouldn't work but I suppose the point is that 'rehabilitation' of a child is a difficult thing to measure because they didn't have a lot of life before the crime to compare to.

SnuggyBuggy · 15/08/2018 09:15

I'm just not convinced people capable of such crimes can change TBH

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 09:15

@fermats I agree. I’m sure they want prisoners to stay in there as long as possible due to the prisons all being privatised and bringing in big bucks.
An old school friend of my mum has a son who is serving a lengthy sentence in Montana and he is employed to build desks for local businesses 6 days a week. He earns a pittance but it’s the only way he can get some structure into his life and not just spend his days sleeping and watching tv.

OP posts:
TheHulksPurplePanties · 15/08/2018 09:15

No I don't think it's appropriate to give life sentences to adolescents, at the same time, I don't believe there is enough focus (or interest) on rehabilitation in prisons to release them back into society at a certain age.

It's really frustrating. At 14 there is a good chance that he could be rehabilitated with the proper therapy, support and education. But you put him in prison and he will get very little, if any, of that, instead he'll quickly learn how to be a better criminal, more violent and less and less able to adapt back to life outside.

The whole prison system, especially in the US, needs an complete over haul.

Hidillyho · 15/08/2018 09:17

It’s really difficult and I struggle to know where I lay in the whole life without parole and death penalty.
On the one hand I don’t agree that you should take a life for a life and I also get that kids at the age of 14 don’t really understand the consequences of their actions. They do know that killing someone is forever but I don’t think they know what it truely means. On the other hand, the crimes in America do seem more over the top. When people are stabbed, they are stabbed a good number of times, the victims are usually tortured before they die. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in the UK but we certainly hear of more violent crimes from the US. If I was in the family’s shoes, and my kids, mum, husband etc was killed in this way then I would definitely want to see that there was real justice for what had happened to them. But then again, whatever the sentence wouldn’t bring back the person who had been killed

serbska · 15/08/2018 09:18

No way.

It is not appropriate to try children as adults, or to give life without parole to anyone in all but the most extreme cases.

FASH84 · 15/08/2018 09:18

No

FASH84 · 15/08/2018 09:20

Custodial sentences are about risk of serious harm, and public protection, there is no way of assessing at 14 if she will still pose an imminent and serious risk that cannot be managed in the community at 50 for example, a life sentence is one thing, no option for parole, ever, is another.

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