Do you think it’s appropriate for adolescents to be sentenced to life without parole? **MNHQ WARNING details of murder mentioned**

[Frosty6611]

Was watching an interesting documentary recently about a 14 year old in America who got a life without parole sentence for stabbing someone to death. The crime was really brutal and he definitely needed to be punished harshly for it, but I couldn’t help thinking that not giving him the chance to ever move beyond what he’s done is a bit much?
Sentencing in the UK is pitiful (the Jamie Bulger case is one that sticks out in my mind - even though the boys were very young when they murdered him, they still shouldn’t have been let out when they were).
It seems to me like America is sometimes too harsh with their sentencing and the UK are too lenient

People are like dogs once they get the taste for blood they crave it more and more.

So does the same apply to those who carry out the executions?

@suburban. If it was my child, I would still support it.
If they take a life, they don't deserve freedom no matter how much they say they've changed.

People are like dogs once they get the taste for blood they crave it more and more.

How true. I gave my dog a piece of raw steak once and he killed the neighbor.

Yes it is. We are supposed to teach our youth right from wrong - what message does it send to make excuses for crimes like that?

I think a life in an institutional facility is a decent trade for taking someone else's life in a manner which caused them unimaginable pain, suffering and fear.

How quickly we forget the victims because they are dead but care about the lives of those that murdered them.

thehulk

How quickly we forget the victims because they are dead but care about the lives of those that murdered them

Why do you think it’s not possible to care about both? Most people would.

How quickly we forget the victims because they are dead but care about the lives of those that murdered themangry.

It is perfectly possible to feel sorry for the victim of a violent crime, and feel sorry for the perpetrator of said crime who is often the victim of crime themselves. People are complex that way, they can feel multiple emotions.

Oh wait, do you know what type of person struggles with emotions and empathy? Psychopaths. So if you're struggling with empathy and multiple emotions, you might want to get checked.

No - I think a lengthy custodial sentence is appropriate in the case of Josh Phillips, but I'm not sure that should be a full life sentence without ever having the possibility of parole.

I think that primarily the aim should be to rehabilitate young offenders if at all possible, even those guilty of horrendous crimes. Of course rehabilitation is not always successful, each offender can respond to treatment differently. Some individuals for various reasons will always pose a potential threat to others so therefore should never be released.

Neuroscience has made massive advances and we now know that the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex at the very front of the frontal lobe doesn't fully mature until early 20's. This area is involved in control of impulses, judgement and decision-making. It does not excuse adolescent criminal behaviour in any way but I think it means that there are some cases where rigorous therapy alongside a custodial sentence could be viable.

@sunbursts I fully agree with what you have written

If a child does this and it's nothing to do with their upbringing, i.e something to do with mh then they should be secured in a high security hospital and not let out unless deemed mentally stable.

If it's to do with being neglected or not raised properly then the parents should have to join them for part of their sentence.

In some cases parents need to be held to account.

I’ve read some very sad cases before where a child has murdered their parent because of terrible abuse and they then get a life sentence in prison

I’ve read some very sad cases before where a child has murdered their parent because of terrible abuse and they then get a life sentence in prison

There are multiple cases where abused women who murdered their husbands have gotten life sentences, even been executed. Does no one feel an ounce of empathy for them? Or should we just be lamenting the victim.

As I always say on these threads, the justice system is not just there to punish or rehabilitate offenders, it's also there to stop the rest of us kicking off in the event of a crime. It's to stop vigilantes, mob riots, torches and pitchforks, and members of the public dragging suspected perpetrators out of their homes by their hair.

That is why "justice has to be seen to be done" ; it's a matter of keeping the streets calm because mob riots destroy property, arrest trade and stop ordinary life from continuing.

In the US, this is a far more prevalent concern because of the Constitution. Judges have to consider what may happen if a perpetrator is seen to have a too light sentence or is let out and commits a violent offence again. In the UK, people might complain and sentencing guidelines may change; in the US, you risk armed protest in certain states. Things can turn to shit very quickly.

But you cannot diagnose a child as a psychopath

I do realise that, ok to suit the pedantic amongst us I will amend my original post.

"Adults who are psychopaths will have been psychopaths at age 14. Just not diagnosed obviously."

Adults who are psychopaths will have been psychopaths at age 14. Just not diagnosed obviously

How do you know that is the case? Do you have a link to the research?

For premeditated murder? Lock them up and throw away the key. No shits given - the rest of us will be a lot safer.

The cause of personality disorders is complex, and research has shown this as causes are now thought to include neurological causes, genetics, childhood trauma and peer influences.

@Frosty6611

His dad was also violent towards him (which definitely isn’t an excuse as plenty of people have violent parents and don’t then go on to commit murder)

Look into ACE (adverse childhood experiences). There is a link between traumatic childhood experiences and just about every negative outcome you can think of. So, while it's true most people, no matter what they've experienced, won't go on to murder someone some will and the, at least partial, explanation will be that trauma they suffered.

It's not an excuse, but if we keep seeing this pattern (and we do) why is relatively little done? What is society as a whole excuse for not dealing with this? Why do we keep voting for governments who either do too little or who actively make this situation worse?

laguna

Was that in response to my post? If so, could you say where have you quoted that from?

Just that I’ve found similar general statements on psychology websites that some behaviour and characteristics in childhood can sometimes be linked to psychopathy in adults.

But I’m wondering where your assertion came from that adults who are psychopaths were undiagnosed psychopaths as children and whether this is actually published research or just guessing.

Case-by-case. When sentencing, the judge will look at the seriousness of the crime, the extent to which they knew what they were doing was wrong, the age and background of the offender, lack of or evidence of remorse, the medical and psychological reports. There are many variables and a judge should have a wide range of sentencing options.

I don't think you should ever have a blanket 'never this' or 'always this' in these circumstances.

I watched the Josh case too. He had a scan that showed a brain lesion which means he snaps under anxiety. That crime was really sick-the body hidden under his own bed, decomposing for nearly a week. That's not normal, teenager or not.
I believe he's making the best he can out of himself in prison and has studied the law and act as paralegal to help other criminals. But I don't think it was wrong to put him away for life.

She was also nude from the waist down and didn't do that on her own. He killed her, perved over her genitals and then stashed her under the bed until the corpse was leaking fluid and his mother found it. Sick af, 14 is not an excuse.

CSIblonde - the poisoner was Graham Young, he even tried stuff in prison when he got a job doing tea duty (what were they thinking) its unbelievable he was let out really as he clearly wasn't rehabilitated.

Re Jon Venables, I think the same applies there as there are reports to suggest he was never really rehabilitated so was totally failed by the system. Unfortunately it was never going to end well with him, it sounds as if he wanted to be caught also.

It's hard to know whether anonymity is the right thing, with the press these days it would be a death sentence not having anonymity so I think there is no choice. It has allegedly worked for Mary Bell and possibly Robert Thompson.

The thing that connects all these children is some horrendous things happening to them when they were young. I believe that is why they are able to be rehabilitated once removed form their environment. You can never know for sure but I suspect with proper rehabilitation and low contact with the people causing many of the issues in their lives most of these children would go on to lead as normal a life as any of us.

When Kids Kill is a really interesting read, it is obviously just from one angle, if you read the booked written by Ralph Bulger and Denise you will have a different side. I'm not 100% sure where I stand in all honestly but I do try and look a bit deeper into it rather than lock them up and throw away the key. I also felt John seemed extremely remorseful but maybe I am gullible.

If it was my child who one of these children hurt then I admittedly would probably be feeling very different.

TheHulk/Romany - my mum's best friends killed her husband. He beat her every day, one day she had enough, he threatened to kill her and when he hit her that night she stabbed him. She stabbed him several times as was worried he would get back up. She got a long prison sentence. It feels wrong but I do wonder where you would draw the line.

Yes.