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Original poster

Do you think it’s appropriate for adolescents to be sentenced to life without parole? **MNHQ WARNING details of murder mentioned**

127 replies

Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 08:34

Was watching an interesting documentary recently about a 14 year old in America who got a life without parole sentence for stabbing someone to death. The crime was really brutal and he definitely needed to be punished harshly for it, but I couldn’t help thinking that not giving him the chance to ever move beyond what he’s done is a bit much?
Sentencing in the UK is pitiful (the Jamie Bulger case is one that sticks out in my mind - even though the boys were very young when they murdered him, they still shouldn’t have been let out when they were).
It seems to me like America is sometimes too harsh with their sentencing and the UK are too lenient

OP posts:
Gemini69 · 15/08/2018 09:21

Ask the families of Victims of released offenders who went on to kill again after being paroled .. what they think of Life without Parole sentencing.

mostdays · 15/08/2018 09:21

No.

LeftRightCentre · 15/08/2018 09:22

Plenty of serial killers had juvenile convictions for some pretty heinous crimes. They were released and their body count grew. I think in some cases, like this, there is not just a punishment issue but the duty and need to protect society.

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 09:25

There was a case in Pennsylvania about 8 years ago where an 11 year old boy received a life without parole sentence for shooting and killing his pregnant step mum. I find it very hard to accept that an 11 year old can’t ever be rehabilitated even when he’s served 40 plus years.
But I also take on board the points that serial killers have often been locked up when younger and have then been released and committed terrible crimes later on. It’s very difficult to know where I stand on it all

OP posts:
runningkeenster · 15/08/2018 09:25

No civilised country should have the death penalty

I agree though there are a few high profile exceptions - the Moors Murderers, the guy who killed Caroline Hogg, Susan Maxwell etc in the 80s where I could look the other way if there were a state-sponsored execution.

I also think there is not enough emphasis on rehabilitation and too much on retribution in our justice system. To me, you should only go to jail if you are a danger to society (ie rapists, murderers, arsonists, drink drivers) and we should be altogether more creative about punishments for eg thieves and fraudsters.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 15/08/2018 09:27

Ask the families of Victims of released offenders who went on to kill again after being paroled .. what they think of Life without Parole sentencing.

Maybe you should ask them what they think of the complete lack of rehabilitation. Countries that have established rehabilitation programs, that aim to educate and teach offenders skills so when they get out they can re-adapt into society, have lower rates of re-offenders.

It's not about harsher punishments, it's about teaching them why it's wrong and giving them the skills they need to be responsible citizens, who contribute positively, in the future.

Plenty of serial killers had juvenile convictions for some pretty heinous crimes.

Actually most are caught for petty crimes. They go to prison where they are often raped/physically abused, or meet others like them, and learn to be better and smarter. At no point did anyone ever try to stop the downward spiral in most of their lives.

To be honest, the common thread with many serial killers tends to be a stint in the military.

Guienne · 15/08/2018 09:28

No, it isn't appropriate. It's not simply a matter of knowing right from wrong. I suspect we all know 14 year olds and indeed older children who think in very immature ways - look at the ones who take stupid risks leading to serious injury or death because they just don't believe the worst can happen to them. It's also important to look at what else was going on with the child in question: to be able to kill at 14 they may well have an untreated mental health disorder, or may have been abused or neglected themselves. Keeping them in prison indefinitely won't help the victim, and is essentially a wasted opportunity for rehabilitation leading to a useful life.

Djnoun · 15/08/2018 09:31

It's not appropriate to try them as adults. If a fourteen year old wanted to have sex, or drink alcohol, or leave school, you'd tell them they were too young to know their own mind to make those decisions. But if they commit a serious crime, they are supposed to have been able to consider the matter fully the same as someone several years older than them?

LemonysSnicket · 15/08/2018 09:37

14 year olds are stupid... but I don't know anyone who could kill someone and hide the body at that age... I think 20 years minimum. He's unlikely to change and I don't value his shot at life more than an innocent he may decide to kill if released tbh.

Janni01 · 15/08/2018 09:38

I do agree with life without for parole for crimes like murder yes.

Prison is meant to rehabilitate yes, and I fully support changing people and helping people, but in my opinion if you took a life you don't deserve to ever experience freedom ever again.

TwistedStitch · 15/08/2018 09:39

Frosty that 11 year old was eventually tried as a juvenile so didn't receive life without parole, he was released at 19 years old. His conviction was also overturned recently.

Hidillyho · 15/08/2018 09:41

The sad thing is is that a lot of these children who commit such crimes never really stood a chance. Their upbringing is some of the most horrendous upbringings you can have.
I watched a tv program where it was something like 8 exicutions over 8 days. Some of them got off and others went through with the death penalty. Some of the ones who were put to death really did seem like they could be rehabilitated whilst some of the people who survived showed no remorse for their actions and were actually pretty violent in prison.
The series was done as the injections were about to run out of date and it was in a place where pharmaceutical companies were refusing to give the prisons any more of the drugs required.
Some of the executions seemed pretty horrific with the drugs failing to act properly so the person died horribly.

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 09:41

Apparently he had an addiction to porn and was looking at violent images. Just goes to show how damaging that sort of thing can be to certain people. His dad was also violent towards him (which definitely isn’t an excuse as plenty of people have violent parents and don’t then go on to commit murder) but hopefully he’s being treated for mental health issues inside and hasn’t just been thrown in a cell for the rest of his life with no help

OP posts:
Allthewaves · 15/08/2018 09:41

Depends. If he's a psychopath or other neurological diagnosis - that won't change

CoraPirbright · 15/08/2018 09:43

No I dont agree with it and esp not when you view the stats that show that young black males are in the vast majority.

It is at this point that I also start to struggle with the concept of evil and knowing right from wrong. Someone who commits such an utterly heinous crime surely cannot be quite right in the head? It is so far beyond the ken of everyone who just goes about their everyday normal business that I cannot believe that they dont have some wiring wrong somewhere (and whether that has occurred by nature or by nurture is another issue). If you extrapolate out that theory, then you get into the realms of mental illness and whether it is, strictly speaking, the fault of the perpetrator. Which then opens up the possibility of treatment...

...I dont know. Probably just a silly stream of consciousness. But I know for sure that my gut reaction to murders (esp of children) is to want the perpetrator hung drawn and quartered but I would like to think that a 14 year old, with help and therapy, might be able to turn things around. But then the poor victim wont have that chance.....oh god, what an awful awful scenario.

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 09:43

@hidillyho I watched that documentary too and some of them had the most hideous upbringings. There was one who was executed who really did seem like he could have 100% been rehabilitated

OP posts:
SlothMama · 15/08/2018 09:48

I think it is, if they are capable of murdering someone as a youngster there's no guarantee they won't be released to do it again.

bsbabas · 15/08/2018 09:49

The mentally challenged fourteen yr old girl who murdered her rapist when he was attacking her shouldn't be in prison.

idonthaveatattoo · 15/08/2018 09:50

No.

ClaryFray · 15/08/2018 09:53

Prisons are angry places, most of the people in them spend there time angry at the system that put them there. Most people say "it's a risk of the life I lead" and no more is said about it.

Rehabilitation is one thing but when your releasing them back to the same places and people they've known you'll see little change.

I agree with it. It can lead to parole but obviously that means it may not be as easy as it could be which can only be a good thing.

Original poster
Frosty6611 · 15/08/2018 09:57

Do you agree with the child killers in this country like Mary Bell and Thompson & Venables being given new identities when released as young adults?

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 15/08/2018 09:59

He's unlikely to change

What inside knowledge do you have about this case that you can make such a statement?

Janni01 · 15/08/2018 10:00

I don't think they should have been released in the first place, wasn't it venables that reoffended by having sexual images of kids on his laptop?

I think they should've spent the rest of their life in prison. But the risk to them outside of prison would be massive, so I support a change of identity, but they need monitoring for the rest of their lives.

LagunaBubbles · 15/08/2018 10:03

Depends. If he's a psychopath or other neurological diagnosis - that won't change

This. 14 year old psychopaths grow up to be adult psychopaths.

RedDwarves · 15/08/2018 10:05

No, I don't agree with it in any circumstance where a minor is concerned.

I only agree with life without parole in the most extreme circumstances for adult offenders. I have studied law. I am aware that life without parole is no deterrent and will often see an offender's behaviour deteriorate in prison because they have nothing to work toward and no incentive to change their behaviours, attitudes etc. There are certainly some offenders who should never be released, and rightly have been sentenced accordingly, but the majority should have the opportunity to sit opposite a parole board at some point.