Do you think it’s appropriate for adolescents to be sentenced to life without parole? **MNHQ WARNING details of murder mentioned**

[Frosty6611]

Was watching an interesting documentary recently about a 14 year old in America who got a life without parole sentence for stabbing someone to death. The crime was really brutal and he definitely needed to be punished harshly for it, but I couldn’t help thinking that not giving him the chance to ever move beyond what he’s done is a bit much?
Sentencing in the UK is pitiful (the Jamie Bulger case is one that sticks out in my mind - even though the boys were very young when they murdered him, they still shouldn’t have been let out when they were).
It seems to me like America is sometimes too harsh with their sentencing and the UK are too lenient

I think there are some people who cannot be released to live safely in the community as they pose an ongoing risk. Those people should never be released. The issue is identifying them, which is no easy task and even the highly qualified and experienced professionals dealing with them, making those decisions can be fooled.

Then there are others who have committed very serious, horrific crimes and who must serve a long sentence because of that. Once they have served that sentence, if deemed safe to be release then I suppose we have to give them a 2nd chance. Not sure if I'd feel the same about it if it was my child they had murdered though. I think I'd want them locked up for life.

This. 14 year old psychopaths grow up to be adult psychopaths.

Children cannot be diagnosed as psychopaths so this statement is false.

No its not false Suburbanrhonda. I never said anything about children being diagnosed as psychopaths. But psychopathy just doesnt suddenly "develop" when someone is an adult. Signs will be there when they are children.

If you scroll to 25 mins in you’ll see Josh Phillips (the now 34 year old who I was talking about in my OP who committed murder at 14 giving his statement to the parole board which is turned down.
I do think he seems very remorseful but he could just be a bloody good actor

I never said anything about children being diagnosed as psychopaths.

How can anyone be described as a psychopath who doesn’t have that diagnosis? It’s a psychological condition, not a general insult.

I think that if you murder someone then you should be locked up for the rest of your life. I don't see how people who think it's OK to kill another person can be rehabilitated. I don't think we should have the death penalty, but on the other hand I don't see why the taxpayer should fund murderers for the rest of their life. Murder, rape, and paedophilia related crimes are the unforgivable, evil type of crime that I don't think those people should ever see the light of day again - shame we can't just zap them with a Ray gun or ship them off to Mars. People like that have no place in society, and when they commit a heinous crime then they forfeit the privilege imo.

I'm of the opinion once a 14yo or any adolescent/ young adult has be incarcerated for a long period of time it makes release harder.

I don't have an answer to this but in this case you have a 14yo that clearly was a danger to the public (and maybe himself?).

I'm not sure release at 34 or 54 will make any difference with regards how he'd manage. Things like the birth of the internet, never having learnt the skills required for independent living having missed that developmental stage etc.

Sometimes I wonder if some sort of supported residential living is required for people in this situation and whether that would decrease re offending because once again they are in a world they can't deal with?

It's a very interesting discussion and I am looking forward to following this thread

@youarenotkiddingme In the case of Josh, the only family he has left is his mum and if he were to be released when she’s died then he’d be alone. You’re totally right that the world will be a completely different place now and he probably wouldn’t be able to cope without any support.
I remember a scene in The Shawshank Redemption where an inmate is released after serving 60 years or so. He’s just chucked out into society and he has no family or friends to help him and everything is so different. He ends up committing suicide as he’s unable to cope

There was definitely a sexual element to it acc to officers, tho he denied it OP. So to me, he has sexual tendencies towards children & will always be a risk, as those tendencies don't suddenly change. Louis Theroux's doc on US sex offender facility: it has 1% rehabilitation success rate).

One of Jamie Bulgers killers has been back to prison twice now re child porn on his computer. The sexual element to the crime was hushed up at time. Also the 15yr old in the late 60's who famously poisoned his family talked his way out of Broadmoor after a few years:& promptly poisoned his new workmates. Another recent one: US boy murdered a 13year old girl, was tried as a child at 13, due to be released after 6years, then nearly killed a female support worker.

If they have offended due to mental health issues, I'd say Broadmoor type place for as long as necessary, & still monitored afterward if deemed releasable. If they had no mental health issues I'd say life in prison, but longer than 10-12yrs which is what it seems to end up here.

If it were possible to always be 100% certain that the evidence is accurate and complete, that the defendant has had a fair trial, that the jury understands all the evidence and the arguments presented to them and bases their decision purely on those factors and not their personal views, if all legal procedures have been conducted in the correct way and with no bais or prejudice, I can see why someone the “eye for an eye” approach. It’s simple, satisfies the desire for revenge and makes us feel safer.

However, a cursory reading of any case where the defendant is poor, not white, a juvenile or all three will show you that this is never the case.

The US is one of the most prolific executors in the world and one of only a handful of countries that has executed people who were juveniles at the time of the crime.

CSI

There’s no such thing as “child porn” - it’s images of child sexual abuse.

No, definitely not.

*No I don't think it's appropriate to give life sentences to adolescents, at the same time, I don't believe there is enough focus (or interest) on rehabilitation in prisons to release them back into society at a certain age.

It's really frustrating. At 14 there is a good chance that he could be rehabilitated with the proper therapy, support and education. But you put him in prison and he will get very little, if any, of that, instead he'll quickly learn how to be a better criminal, more violent and less and less able to adapt back to life outside.

The whole prison system, especially in the US, needs an complete over haul*

^This, so much.

The trouble is, the overly harsh US prison system doesn't work in the way it is intended.

It doesn't rehabilitate.
It doesn't deter people from crime.
It doesn't encourage education or treat mental health conditions.

@CSLblonde yes there definitely seems to have been a sexual element to it as she was found naked from the waist down and he had apparently been viewing porn on his computer that day too (he claims that her trousers and pants came off during the struggle to drag her under the bed. Not sure I believe that).
But if he was a child at the time too then surely that means we can’t say he’s a peadophile now who is interested in sex with children? It must be terrifying for the parole board to agree to release people like him incase he does go on to reoffend though. I’m sure they don’t want something like that on their shoulders so it’s easier for them to just keep them in prison

JagerPlease

I dont agree with trying children as adults as the fact is they aren't adults and their brains aren't developed in the same way. I also generally don't agree with life without parole except in the most severe cases (more akin to the UK system) as it ignores the possibility of rehabilitation at all, and makes prisoners difficult to manage as there is no incentive to undergo courses or behave etc. I believe life without parole should be reserved for those where there is no chance of rehabilitation at any time in the future, and I don't believe you can ever say that about a child

^^ this

Thanks for saving me the time to type all that out

The one I watched the other day, was about 3 people who drew a pentagram on her then hit her in the head with a rock.

The main offender was 18 and she was sentenced to death which included electrocution. She's currently on death row.

Thing is the vast vast majority of child criminals, especially child murderers, are victims of abuse themselves. So further punishing and already victimized child, isn't really going to achieve anything other than teaching them that their shit and will always be shit so why not treat everyone else like shit.

Actually, it works in exactly the way it's intended - lock them up and throw away the key. Which really is a stupid idea because it only creates more victims, in a whole variety of ways.

The main offender was 18 and she was sentenced to death which included electrocution. She's currently on death row.

Which US state was this? Only 9 states still have electrocution and all of them have lethal injection as the primary method.

How can anyone be described as a psychopath who doesn’t have that diagnosis? It’s a psychological condition, not a general insult

Of course people can be psychopaths without a diagnosis. Most wont unless they have committed a crime for example and come to the attention of the authorities, its not exactly something people generally seek treatment for and therefore there will be 100s of undiagnosed psychopaths out there. Its a personality disorder. When adults are diagnosed with psychopathy its common to see that the signs were there when they were children.

Of course people can be psychopaths without a diagnosis.

Calling a child a psychopath when they can’t be diagnosed as such is what’s incorrect. And of course there can be early signs of disordered behaviour in children that can develop into psychopathy as an adult.

But you cannot diagnose a child as a psychopath.

I think this is a difficult case to extrapolate such a generalised point

There was a disturbing element to this case that means I believe it was justified for such a long sentence

Ultimately the law views prison as both rehabilitation and protection for the wider public and these decisions need to balance both...the spirit of the law is there to ensure people get a second chance when the is to the public is low

The sentence is one thing but the parole board is another and without knowing his level of engagement in prison it's hard to call

I am aware and know if someone who committed a horrific crime and was entirely rehabilitated...he was sentenced to life but was out in his thirties and I and others who know him would swear to him being no risk whatsoever

On the other side of it , having worked prisons....i have met some vile people who would sit in a courtroom and easily convince you of remorse when there was less than none

A single case cannot be used to make a generalised statement about age based sentencing ...its far more complicated than that

YANBU. Totally disagree with that. A 14 year old is no where near reaching their full intellectual development. Life without parole doesn't work as a deterrent and there is every possibility for somebody to lead a productive life. I don't think anyone would be in favour of releasing someone who was still considered dangerous but removing the possibility of parole isn't acceptable.

I 100% agree with it.

Would you agree with it if it was your 14-year-old, shiny?

So he should be in there for life. Why should any mercy be shown on him. Did he show any mercy on his terrified victim or her poor distraught parents and family.
All that "He's only 14. He might change is a load of tosh waddle. People are like dogs once they get the taste for blood they crave it more and more.
I wish our justice system was the same.