To not want sil to provide childcare

[Wadewilson]

I'm fully prepared to be told iabu, and possibly a bit snobby but that's why I'm asking.

Sil has a part time job during the day that she absolutely hates. She only gets £200/ month for it, but they need that extra money so she can't quit.
I'm due to go back to work after mat leave soon, and local nurseries are about £800/month. DH has suggested instead of that, speaking to his sister and offering her 300-400/month to provide childcare. Cheaper for us than nursery, and she could quit the job she hates and have more money.

The issue is, I dont want her to. I love sil, she's like an actual sister to me and I love spending time with her. But, her children spend almost 24/7 on phones and tablets (they are 2 and 6). If they are playing with toys rather than tablets they are told to be quiet and just go on the tablet instead of making noise. They are also fed convenience foods all the time. Constantly having chocolate, sweets, ice lollies. Actual meals are things like potato waffles with beans and sausage from a tin, frozen pizzas, that sort of thing. The nearest I've seen her children have to a home cooked meal is spag bol from a can. We are there quite a lot, so see a good range of their meals. We've also been away with them before, and all the children will eat is things like burgers and pizzas and chicken nuggets.
I know I sound really snobby and awful by saying that, but that isn't what we eat and definitely not what I want dc to eat. When i was growing up it was all home cooked food, vegetables, proper meals. That's what we eat now, and thats what i want dc to grow up eating. I know i cant force dc to like vegetables and things, but if vegetables and home cooked food is normal there is more chance of them liking it.

Aibu by thinking that? And aibu for not wanting her to provide childcare?
And do people have any other options? We could afford the 800 for nursery, but it would make things tight, and dh is insistent about not paying it and giving his sister money instead.

But those women were not related. That's the big differentiating factor, as far as I can make out.

That’s the big difference.

And a lot of people mix up the fact that granny/aunty has to be registered and following proper eyfs etc if you want to claim tax credits or childcare vouchers for the cost (there was a grandmother who took it to court when her child wasn’t allowed to claim tc’s to pay her when they first came out) with the fact that relatives must be registered to provide childcare.

You also need to consider that your SIL might start to resent that she is being paid peanuts for full time childcare. Babies are full on hard work and cannot be ignored in the same way pre schoolers/older children can be.

What happens when she's fed up and decides she fancies a day off/lie in and cancels on you at short notice? Not to mention if she's ill, on holiday, kids are ill or she makes plans that don't suit a baby.

I think if SIL was offering to look after your baby one or two days a week then that would be acceptable but full time childcare 5 days a week will put a huge strain on your relationship from both sides, especially as your DH wants to pay a disgustingly low amount. But then I guess you can't really complain about her care or lack if care if DH is wanting cheap childcare.

doesn't matter -www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/childcare-options#family-or-friends
I repeat if you PAY your relative they need to be registered

Have the Big Fuck Off Row.

I would.

Family childcare is a nightmare anyway, if it’s anything other than babysitting or ad hoc.

This situation has disaster written all over it.

Regardless of the complete disrespect your husband is showing by dismissing your wishes. Which is even worse.

Call SIL and politely say it’s very tricky but her brother has spoken out of turn because you’re not sure what childcare you need yet and you’re investigating a lot of options.

Then have the row with your DH.

I certainly would be surprised at those things, GreenTulips.
Where I live, preschool is from 3 but you can't start until you're toilet trained.
My small town is mixed demographic but I worked at the school and no NT child ever started in nappies.
How sad for those children in your examples.

penelopeflintstone
I think that law is ridiculous. Making things harder for working women.
I think the problem is that the legislation is required to cover those eventualities where people can't or won't use good judgment (and for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not talking about the OP, her DH, or the SIL!). It nets a lot of perfectly responsible people who could benefit from creative arrangements, unfortunately. And also assumes that family members are likely to be more suitable CMs. Because it's not like anyone's ever come to harm in the care of a family member... but this is way outside the actual thread, of course.

Yadnu. I wouldn't want this either. As lovely as she might be she sounds like she takes the easy route of parenting on a ridiculous scale.

Sounds about right, Dolores.

i understand it is illegal, but neither dh or sil would care in the slightest, so he wouldn't accept that as a reason not to do it regardless of what I say

Wouldn't SIL care if she got prosecuted? And it would be extremely foolish to think it couldn't happen.

Mumsastudent
I imagine you're looking at 'A family member doesn’t have to be registered with Ofsted if they’re providing childcare free of charge.' ?
Sadly, the OPs DH is offering such a small sum that it could be passed off as food and nappies, which I imagine doesn't count as payment.
But yes, I suspect that payment changes the SILs status from relative to paid CM and therefore throws legality in doubt. (It's a pity the MAS booklet doesn't specify, rather than implying, that relatives who are paid must be registered -- it's sort of reverse implied, if you see what I mean)

Well he pays £12.50/day at work for lunches and coffee and things

SO buy him a thermal cup of coffee (the sort that last hours) and send him in with a nice home-made pack lunch.

You need to be more assertive op
Don't let his sister look after the kids if she wouldn't do it how you want her to.

There are a few issues with childcare and paying family members. Aside from all the valid problems discussed above, you would not be able to receive the 15 funded hours (or 30 if you are eligible for them) even if your SIL was a registered childminder you wouldn’t be able to receive them, as funding isn’t given to professionals looking after family members.
You are far better off finding a registered childminder or nursery. If you go on your local councils website you should find a list of both nurseries and CMs.
Good luck!

Thinking on it further OP another way to tackle this with your DH might be wrt money.

He's proposing £400 - but for that he can't assume that his sister will also cover food, nappies, wipes, toys etc. If he is thinking that then it's not going to take his sister very long to realise that the "extra" £200 a month is actually not the case when you factor all these items in.

Yes nursery is more expensive, but aside from the structure, training, facilities etc it's also because these things are included.

So he thinks he's paying £400 rather than £800 - but in reality that's not the saving at all when you add up the additional cost of food/nappies etc for 3 meals a day, 5 days a week plus all the nappies then the savings start to become more marginal (but I'll bet he hadn't thought of this and will be assuming his sister will cover this).

Add that to the risks of her not being a registered childminder and the financial "benefit" here is very marginal at best whilst the issues remain extensive.

We had PIL looking after DD for 2x days (and nights at their insistence) for a couple of years. It was immensely helpful but with our CM she had everything covered by policies, which made everything so much easier...

We knew exactly how much annual leave she would take and the notice she would give us. Policies around discipline, notice given to terminate the arrangement (on either side), travel policy regarding use of car seats, business car insurance, procedures on what happens should the CM lose a child, fire safety assessment on her home, paediatric first aid training etc. She worked for us which made any discussions around the children much easier. Obviously we were polite and worked with our CM but when DD had to stop having squash for medical reasons, it was very easy to talk to our CM about that (she didn't give squash anyway) but with PIL it was awkward (as they caused the problem and they liked to treat DD when she asked so we were never 100% sure).

When I recently had to give my CM notice when I got made redundant at minimum notice, I felt awful. But that's part of her business. If you have to stop the arrangement with SIL, what on earth happens to your relationship with her when her income goes to zero?

You need reliable childcare that you're happy with so you can go off to work and do your job. Unreliable childcare is absolutely a false economy.

You need to tell your SIL asap it's a no go in case she actually hands in notice.

More importantly, I think you need to have a serious think about your relationship with DH . This is likely to be the start of him thinking he can lay down the law, and possibly financial abuse.

This is an opportunity to draw a line in the sand.

Yes to the comment above, I expect you'll need to provide food for your child with SIL (or pay her more). At nursery and our the CM, it was all included; breakfast, lunch and snacks.

She's not a registered childminder, you can't pay her to watch your child unless she registers herself and then all the rest with HMRC.

Oh, just thought of something else which may or may not be pertinent. Are you thinking about having another child? Say in the next year or two? What will happen when you take maternity leave then? That'll be the end of her income, surely?

It would be snobby if you had unfounded concerns based on sil 's accent or the way she dresses but it's not snobby to not want your kids on tablets all day or eating unhealthy food. I think family providing childcare can be wonderful and an be fraught with problems. You can't ask them to do things differently as you might with a professional as you'd be criticising their parenting.

I'd definitely go for nursery (by the time the DC was 2 or 3 you'd probably want them in nursery socialising anyway so it wouldn't be a long term thing anyway.

For the love of fuck why does everyone keep saying it's illegal?! Op has said it will be in her own house. How on Earth do people think nannies work?!

That said, it's a bloody awful idea for many other reasons.

I'm on your side 100%! I think it's worth the extra money to send her to proper childcare. The fact that your SIL hates her job is not your problem!

Stimmyplip

‘How on Earth do people think nannies work?!’

They are laid legally, taxes NI etc, and WELL above minimum wage

Look on the bright side. You no longer need to discuss and agree with your dh, so send one of those messages to sil. Do you know which nursery? Register baby to start, tell your dh.
I wouldn’t send my child to a nursery that even had a tv in the room, and just like all my friends angstrd a little that nursery serve pudding sometimes (when he was very little anyway!) so the environment you describe would be a deal breaker level unacceptable. You can’t send snacks just for yours, you will still be buying nappies etc. But none of that is relevant, the environment is not ok.

Has op said she won't pay taxes?