SIL has not vaccinated my nieces

[Pittcuecothecookbook]

My baby has been booked in for her vaccinations soon. I asked my sister in law, who has primary school aged kids, about the experience and I was flabbergasted when she said she didn't get their jabs. I can't quite believe it!

When I asked why, she said the risks outweighed the pros but she struggled to articulate what the risks were beyond 'potential death'. I said that that was also the downside of not getting the jabs too! She said she was persuaded when her friend said that the jabs couldn't be undone if her kids had a reaction.

AIBU to be shocked and quite disappointed about this? I'm not looking forward to it by any means, but the eradication of many awful diseases and protection against those still prevalent is surely a non negotiable?

When her kids don't get these diseases, she'll be vindicated but that will likely be because the majority have had their jabs rather than proving jabs were unnecessary.

I imagine I'll get over this - my child will be protected - but I'm just at hearing this news.

Chronic inflammatory diseases do not effect a small number of people .... immunological disorders are on a sliding scale of severity but are now extremely common.
This is not a false narrative for me, however vaccines being promoted as safe and effective certainly is. You have as much right to your opinion as I do to mine.
I believe, from my vast experience and research that these are developmental diseases in susceptible individuals. If a child with measles is in a room with 20 unvaccinated children some will develop it some won’t ...this is down to susceptibility. I am responsible for my own child’s susceptibility as well as my own... I am not responsible for yours.
I do not believe that vaccines are either safe or effective nor am I scared of these diseases. I am very much in the Bechamp camp as far as the expression of disease is concerned and that the terrain (ie the Health and toxicity of the individual) is far more important than the microbe. Scarlet fever is a good example of this. Strep is on most people most of the time... it’s only when an overgrowth occurs that you get the symptoms associated with it...

So arguing the toss over the safety of aluminium when it clearly provokes the immune system in a negative way ..hence the unprecedented rise in autoimmune disjunction isn’t rocket science.

Someone asked my educational level earlier on ...
I have medical background (not working in that now) a first class honours degree, and earn in excess of 100K ....

"That study doesn’t say anything we didn’t know: vaccinations are risky for some people (a very small percentage of people) and they should discuss their options with their doctor"

The problem is that nobody knows if their baby is in that susceptible minority at 8 weeks old, when vaccination starts.

(My DC have had all the vaccines we were proposed except for two I felt were not necessary, so I'm not an anti-vaxxer.)

I am responsible for my own child’s susceptibility as well as my own... I am not responsible for yours.

Selfish. Selfish on behalf of your child and every child they come into contact with. Every pregnant woman they come into contact with.

Selfish. Selfish. Selfish.

Go live on a small island on your own if you don’t want to be responsible for the effect your actions have on others. At least be an adult and own that you don’t give a shit about accidentally causing the death or disfigurement of another child.

I don’t care how much you earn or how educated you are. It says nothing about your morality or empathy.

An excerpt from one of the two articles cited as evidence for the statement I quoted above:

"research has also fueled speculation that certain plant-based vaccines might help suppress autoimmunity--in which the body's defenses mistakenly attack normal, uninfected tissues. Among the autoimmune disorders that might be prevented or eased are type I diabetes (the kind that commonly arises during childhood), multiple sclerosis and rheumatoid arthritis"

I am no scientist, but it doesn't quite seem to say what the author said it did. Perhaps Sue the biochemist can explain?

No aloe required - didn't even see it!

I'm confident in my knowledge, but if sue wants to repost what was said WITHOUT breaching TG (is that possible) then I can address any reasonable argument.

Judging from MairyHoles comment that may not be possible.

Cath - you mean one full of ifs/buts/maybes (true scientists are wary of definites) and which even in conclusion still says it's only a possibility with 0.01% of risk?

Many of us that have been honest in stating we are pro-vaccination have also stated REPEATEDLY that we are aware there ARE risks but that

THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE RISKS

Seriously - how many times do we have to say this?!

I’d like to add that this kind of selfishness is actually worse than those who drive at 80 on country roads because they think they should have the freedom to drive as they please. They think they’ve calculated the risk for themselves but they’ve failed to take into account anyone they could crash into.

This is worse because your decision potentially threatens many, many people.

Misssusan you’ve missed the point where I said I didn’t think vaccines are even effective ....
and I’m pretty sure, if you believed your child was likely to be permanently damaged by a vaccine that you would chose to do it anyway for the good of the herd....

You vaccinate because you believe it’s in YOUR child’s bests interests. The thing is I disagree

But obviously no other opinion is valid in your world

Hello Cath, did you read my posts?

Susan. I have no idea what your talking about.
I don’t see anywhere I said I have any of my children vaccinated or not vaccinated.?
I don’t think you have bothered to read anything I bothered to write or linked to.

I have said all along it’s everyones choices not for you to decide for me or any other person.

where I said I didn’t think vaccines are even effective ....

Evidence? Or are you just going on a feeing? Because I would be pretty fucked off if someone was irresponsibly promoting the idea that vaccines aren’t that effective without hard proof- from actual names and respected professionals in the field- and not just some nameless Internet random’s hunch.

everyones choices not for you to decide for me or any other person.

It is not ‘everyone’s choice’. When you choose not to vaccinate you are making a choice that has ramifications for your entire community. Do you understand that? You are not just calculating your own risk but for others too.

MissSusan

If only Cath could find a study that discusses that point. Oh wait - let's check that link Sue the biochemist was so complimentary of.

It says this:

"Vaccines have accomplished near miracles in the fight against infectious disease. They have consigned smallpox to history and should soon do the same for polio. By the late 1990s an international campaign to immunize all the world's children against six devastating diseases was reportedly reaching 80 percent of infants (up from about 5 percent in the mid-1970s) and was reducing the annual death toll from those infections by roughly three million."

Cath and Susan

One thing graph is you say you know there are risks but you accept them well that’s your choice.
On the other side of that argument those that don’t vaccinate have decided it’s not worth the risk which also is there choice.

You have decided the benefits out way the risks other have decided that they don’t its very simple.

I don’t think they’re effective because of what I’ve come to understand about the nature of disease. Symptoms are an intelligent response by the body to underlying issues. Rashes are invariably for the purposes of elimination inc the measles rash.
Vaccines interfere with the body’s ability to express symptoms hence why you get a-typical measles in vaccinated individuals and why you also get a host of immunological issues as a result

complications from these illnesses are a result of mismanagement of the illness and/or serious underlying issues/toxicity which interfere with the body’s attempt at elimination

Childhood illnesses have been replaced by a host of permanent chronic conditions. We are certainly not healthier than we were 30 years ago despite the ever increasing vaccine schedule. The US who has the highest vaccine schedule has the highest infant mortality rate of any developed country... a disgrace

Yes Mairy I did look ..but read above as to why my opinion is what it is...
I realise that this is conflicting info for most and will likely go down like a lead ballon but hey...

Errrm yes the fact is it is everyone’s individual choice

complications from these illnesses are a result of mismanagement of the illness and/or serious underlying issues/toxicity which interfere with the body’s attempt at elimination

Are you suggesting that measles deaths are the fault of the doctors treating the patient and not because it is a serious, life threatening disease? I really hope you’re not a doctor.

The link was to just illustrate the point that even fervent vaccine promoters acknowledge that vaccines are leading to immune dysfunction....because from the moronic comments on this thread you’d think there were no adverse reactions at all

And as only links from vaccine promoters are allowed on the thread

I have three children and both my eldest have been vaccinated, my youngest had the three injections and the medicine at 8 weeks but reacted really badly so we will be delaying the other shots. I was worried about my decision but the doctor said it’s fine and community immunity should keep him safe... But I’d never NOT get them vaccinated. Imagine how guilty you would feel if they died or had life changing disabilities from something they should have been vaccinated against

Erm Cath, gonna have to stop you there. The underlying evidence for that "fact" says the exact opposite to what you just said.

Why was it again that you don't trust mainstream science? I'm sure Sue the famous biochemist will be upset.

Here's a link to the underlying paper quoted in your "evidence link" (which appears to be a complete fiction:

www.scientificamerican.com/article/edible-vaccines-2006-12/

Miss Susan may I suggest you look up the few deaths from measles over the last 20 years...for instance... all had serious underlying issues
This is a fact

And yes poor management won’t help either. I’ve said earlier antipyretics cause more harm than good yet are still routinely prescribed by many medical professionals.

Cathmidston

You have lost all credibility. What you are promoting is irresponsible in the extreme. Now, you do have a right to an opinion but it is down right dangerous to pretend that opinion is hard, probable fact without any concrete evidence. Especially if it going to have a negative knock on effect on public health.

To sum up: I find your opinion without merit or value. I find what you are saying both disturbing and nonsensical. Have an opinion of this but keep it to yourself until you can prove it. Let’s not forget that lives depend on it.

"all had serious underlying issues
This is a fact"

You're right - most of them had the serious underlying issue of being unvaccinated.

See here:
vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/measles

2 children in the UK have died of measles since 2006. Neither had received the MMR.

Goodness me, those pesky facts keep getting in the way of your complete and utter tissue of lies!

"Selfish. Selfish on behalf of your child and every child they come into contact with. Every pregnant woman they come into contact with. Selfish. Selfish. Selfish."

Err yes. Every parent's primary responsibility is to her own child. Is that news to you?

I have vaccinated my children because it benefits them.

There is no way, none at all, that I would consent to an invasive medical procedure on them for the benefit of others, especially since said procedure carries a small but tangible risk.