To expect play dates and party invitations to be returned?

[Crazy3]

Hi, what do you think? Last year my DD had a birthday party for her 8th birthday and invited her friends mostly boys and one girl. Her other girl friends couldn’t make it. So, not one single boy who came to the party has invited her back to their toes this year. She is pretty astute and is undersandably insulted. The same goes for play dates, we invite kids- girls and boys but people just don’t seem to be bothered about returning the gesture. My DD is a lovely kind and well behaved child, very funny and pleasant so I know it’s not like it’s her that is the issue. Have people just forgotten their manners? Do people just not know about basic etiquette anymore or am I out of step??

I do not have the headspace to monitor who’s parties my DDs have been to or whether it is our turn or theirs for a play date. I’m busy - my work takes a lot of headspace and making sure my DDs turn up wearing the right thing and with the right stuff each day takes most of the rest. I’d need a spreadsheet if I wanted to track this stuff.

I’m generally more comfortable if my DDs are at our house with friends than at their house. I know they are safe and not being rude or destroying someone else’s house. Not that they are poorly behaved, but I can be more confident if they are at mine.

I suspect we do have DC over more than they invite back, but that is slightly intentional. I want our house to be the one they hang out in as teenagers so that I can keep an eye on my DDs. To do that we need to be hospitable and friendly to their friends.

My parents were very much of the opinion that you don’t accept unless you intend to reciprocate. I can’t remember the reasons for not wanting anyone back (house too small/shift work/worries about not liking our ethnic food??) but having to decline an invitation for spurious reasons affected relationships in the playground. I was a socially awkward child and very sensitive so it was tough for me. I wish my parents had relaxed a little about having kids over or allowed me to go anyway.

Like PP, I want to welcome all my DDs friends and make them feel welcome.

OP, I hate playdates with passion. My kids are busy with after school activities 3 nights a week. I like to have a couple of quieter days a week where we don”t need to rush around and can catch up with school work and just chill. My kids never ask for playdates. They have plenty of neighbours with whom they play in each others secure gardens freely. They see their school friends every day at school, I feel that’s enough. Holidays are an exception to this obviously.

That said, my kids are very popular and get invited to lots of parties and playdates. I take the birthday invites as exactly that; an invitation. If you are expecting an invite back, then maybe you should spell that out. I thought kids are inviting mine to their parties because they like their company, not because they are expecting an invite back. Our parties are small, 5-6 kids or so. We invite friends who my kids wish to invite, not necessarily those whose parties they have been to. None of us cares if those same kids don’t invite ours back. They play with different “best friends” every week!

We also get a lot of playdate invites. I try to ward those off with various excuses/vagueness as much as I can, because I don’t know how to politely say: “I don’t want to send my DD/DS to yours, because I really don’t want yours to come to mine”. Some people persist trying to pin me to specific dates, it gets very annoying. I end up giving in, and then have to invite theirs back. That always ends in rowdiness/ craziness, messy house, hyped up kids who don’t go to bed in time etc. I just hate playdates OP. If somebody doesn’t invite your child to their home, it’s because they/their child don’t want to. Just stop inviting them and everybody is happy.

Yes yabu. I agree with some others about not having the headspace to monitor this. I have 3 children and work full time. If they are invited to things and want to go then I facilitate that. If it’s ‘rude’ not to keep tally and ensure invitations are reciprocated then so be it. My entire life can’t revolve around which child needs to reciprocate what playdate or party invite...

well thanks for all the replies- maybe not the ones questioning my personality but hey it’s mumsmet!
Talking about our situation with these particular people in the actual case, (and not all the millions of possible but sadly not relavent variations on this theme)I think PAULRUDDISLUSH hit the nail on the head for me. I’m off for a bath. Thanks to all who chirped in. “It's been years since I was in this situation but I remember it seemed to be some bizarre game I didn't know "the rules" of. If someone invited my dc to a party or play date I always reciprocated but apparently some people just didn't bother and gradually over the years we just toughened up and tried not to get mugged off by parents looking for free childcare/only inviting the popular kids to parties etc. It's a learning curve op.
From what I've observed on mn it's another one of those parallel universe topics where everyone is apparently totally cool with their dc constantly being overlooked for invitations but irl it would probably really upset and bother most people.”

I just let ds invite who he wants to play/parties - I'm happy if kids come because it makes ds happy, I don't really care if they reciprocate.

It would be much worse for kids to refuse to come to our house because they can't invite back!

OP, I do think your DD has been particularly unlucky, and so sympathise with how you both must be feeling.

It most likely does stem from the fact that the majority of kids that she invited were boys.

IME, birthday parties do generally involve the same kids inviting and being invited (because that's the (wider) group they play with), but it's not a hard and fast rule, and your DD has been particularly unlucky to not get the return invites.

When my DC were 5, 6, 7, parties were generally mixed - boys and girls. But now they're 8, 9, 10, that's usually not the case, plus they tend to be smaller in number now.

For DD's 6th birthday she invited a couple of boys, and didn't get a return invitation back to one, and that Mum and I are good friends. They have two boys, and always have all-boy parties, that's their choice - or more likely their boys' choice. DD invited that boy again for her 7th and she did get a return invitation the following year to his, but was the only girl there. Not all that much fun for her.

You also say that people shouldn't accept invitations for their boys, if they have no intention of returning the invitation because they're going to have an all-boys' party themselves.

Well, that not realistic. If you're kindly invited to a party, you accept, because presumably the birthday child wants your child there.

Imagine being the host mum, and people were declining your child's invitation because they knew they weren't going to invited your child to their party. That's much, much worse, surely.

This year, DD had a smaller group to her 8th and they were all girls.

I do think that you have been unlucky, and that it's for an identifiable reason (inviting mostly boys), and that people are not intentionally excluding your DD, they're just inviting people on the birthday child's list. There is no malice.

OP your last post illustrated my point about your personality perfectly

I agree with you OP. I have always reciprocated play dates - every time. And I have had a huge amount on my plate for a few years now which I won't go on about here but have posted about in past. But I always reciprocate as I'm grateful someone else made the effort. Children love play dates - my DC are always so chuffed and excited to get an invite - so I return the favour even when it's difficult.
We've had several unreciprocated play dates though - without fail the parents always say on collection we will arrange to have littlemummy to ours - sometimes prompted by their DC and sometimes not. That irritates me when over the next few months we see a procession of children going off to theirs. I'd prefer they hadn't said it. I agree with the two play dates rule - i wouldn't have a child back a third time if unreciprocated unless I knew there might be a reason why the parent wasn't reciprocating. Yet I've had those children approach me and ask when they can next come to ours (whilst unreciprocating parent looks on).
Parties, again, I nearly always reciprocate. The only exception is if the entire class was invited and it's a child my DC doesn't usually have anything to do with. If it was a party giver my DC didn't get on with, we'd decline.
That said, in my DD's class was a child with special needs who was a lovely lovely boy but could be violent when he was frustrated. The great majority of invitees declined his party (much nasty collaboration in playground) but my DD was one of four who attended and the party boy had a lovely time. My DD never really played with him at school (he didn't get playtime with the rest usually) but was kind hence got an invite. We didn't reciprocate but only because he left the school two weeks later and my DD's Birthday wasn't until nine months after. But I absolutely would have invited him if they'd still been about.
I have friends who are well off financially, the Mum (my friend) has two DC at school and chooses not to work - no judgement just explaining that time isn't too short, they have a cleaner and gardener, and a lovely home, yet despite coming to ours three times for BBQs/meals we've never had an invite back. She happily announces that she's "too lazy" to entertain. Funnily enough I've become lazy about inviting them round - it won't happen again! Yet she's quite huffy when we have other friends round.
I just think some people are takers. I'd have the same child round 10 times if I thought there might be a good reason why things weren't reciprocated, but aside from that I am not going to be anyone's mug.

I have always let my child chose who he wants to his parties. He is actually a very kind and considerate child who is friendly to everyone. Consequently he was invited to parties of kids he did not necessarily consider 'friends'. He would go to these parties, take a present and have a nie time but it didn't mean that all those children were invited to his. We never did whole class things but ones that were limited to between 6 and 12 depending on the event.

We would usually reciprocate one to one playdates.

I think the proper etiquette in real life is to.invite who you want but with no expectation of a return invite!

But then again I am a person who sends an rsvp.

I do playdates on occasion, even though as I work and have four DC it is really tricky. With my dd (7) they are almost always reciprocated, which is nice. For some reason with my Ds(9), he hasn't been invited back. He is always over our ndn's house ( boys are the same age) and she assures me he behaves beautifully! He is autistic so that might be something to do with it, but he doesn't have melt downs and isn't difficult in anyway. He does get party invites now, but didn't for the first two years or so. I know that it feels horrible when your child is left out, I hated it! However, in my view I arrange playdates because my children love them. It isn't for the other child or the other parent, so I don't expect playdates back. And I will continue to invite the children round because my son loves it, even if he doesn't get invited in return!

At this age boys aren't really interested in playing with girls and maybe their parties were theme-based ie football, laser, and a girl wouldn't be on their radar when issuing invitations.

Could your DD join Cubs or Brownies to widen her circle of friends?

I'm glad I could help op. These early years are tough, sometimes high school is better because the parents aren't really involved but sometimes worse because your dc might not hit the mark on the cool-o-meter and get left out again.
It can be very difficult seeing your dc confused and miserable, wondering why they don't fit.
All I know is once school was done, my dd flourished and I hope yours does too

This is why I hate play dates and parties. The politics of it all! I don't expect reciprocal invites for either, especially parties, or it would be all the same children all the time. Invite people because you / your dd wants them over. Full stop

Everyone's after school situation is different. I have hosted many play dates but in September will be working full time. Dh will pick up dc on 2 days but then work from home as they entertain themselves so adding another dc is not something I think we will be doing. It is disappointing though as dd2's best friends with a boy but the dm doesn't seem to see it and only invites other boys over.

With playdates, we find similar with my daughter.

I think sometimes the parents can't be arsed tbh (in our case anyway).

Also one of her friends lives in a flat so I know her Mum worries about where they would play, another has lots of younger siblings and only a small house so again it's a space issue. Maybe its this?

If your child wants another child home for tea and it’s convenient, then invite them. It’s not reciprocal childcare- it’s your child having a friend to play. Stop keeping count.

You sound like my mother in law who talks about who owes who an invitation to supper. It’s an odd perspective that you invite children to ensure your child’s social life. There may be many reasons - working parents, parents wanting their son’s to play with other boys and feeling uncomfortable about encouraging a female friend, not liking her particularly (shock, horror) or feeling they don’t want to have to start being beholden and counting.
Encourage more female friends - it makes life simpler.
Make friends with some other parents so you can do after school coffee and play.
Have smaller, less inclusive parties so need to reciprocate is felt more keenly.
Don’t count.

Everyone saying it's cheeky looking for free child care. I have never, ever asked anyone to have any of my 3 kids. I can't see how me saying yes to an invitation is me being cheeky? I have no doubt I'm in play date arrears, eldest DC is 15, I have no hope of catching up. If people are asking you to take their DC and not offering to help with yours then yes, I can see that being annoying, but if you offer in the first place.....

I wish I hadn't read this thread, I'm getting paranoid! I never knew people kept score.

“ wish I hadn't read this thread, I'm getting paranoid! I never knew people kept score.”

Don’t worry, only means spirited people keep score.

With play dates I'd say it's definitely polite to reciprocate. BUT I do understand it's not always possible for a few reasons. We would still invite that child over to play though.

Parties generally we reciprocate invitations because the parties my children get invited to are from their main friendship group.

Occasionally they get invites from children they're not particularly good friends with but just because they're in the same class. We would still accept though.

We have also invited children that haven't returned the invite but I'm not offended by this. My kids just accept it as they know they're not allowed to invite the whole class to their party so why would the party child be allowed to?

We have also invited children that haven't returned the invite but I'm not offended by this. My kids just accept it as they know they're not allowed to invite the whole class to their party so why would the party child be allowed to?

This is the issue in the OP’s case in a way - OP’s DD has been taught to invite people she’s been invited by above others, so now when other people are using different ‘rules’ it seem ‘unfair’. It’s a mismatch if expectations.

For parties, you invite, people accept and bring a gift. The reciprocal bit is done. I want the invitees to turn up! It would be bloody awful if they all refused because later in the year they couldn’t invite my DC back again, for whatever reason. Sometimes it is awkward, but that’s life, for children and adults.

I want the invitees to turn up! It would be bloody awful if they all refused because later in the year they couldn’t invite my DC back again, for whatever reason“

Yes, this. And it means that children whose parents can’t afford a party never get to go to one. Which would be awful. And if a child gets invited to 5 parties then wants to do something for their own birthday that has a limited number of people, they would have to invite those 5 children. Which would be bonkers.

OP: I need some perspective if my worldview in the norm.

Mumsnet: your worldview is not the norm. Here are lots of people giving reasons and examples of why your reaction might not be justified.

OP: but I right and Mumsnet is just a parallel universe where no normal people hang out! Only the one poster in 5 pages agreeing with me is right.

Mumsnet: ok then...

*I am right