To think suicidal ideation is almost normal?

[crunchymint]

By ideation I mean thinking of suicide, but making no real plans. I suspect that most people at some point in their lives, have vague suicidal thoughts. And although it is horrible to be distressed, I also suspect this is part of the human condition.
Obviously health professionals try and assess those with vague thoughts of suicide, from those who really are suicidal, and the latter need treatment and support.
AIBU to think this?

So sorry ParkheadParadise

Suicide is violent and cowardly.

Offensive. My husband has a severe MH illness and has had it for 20 plus years. I don't know how he manages to get up every day and go through what he goes through. I would not think him cowardly if he ended his life at all. That wouldn't make him a coward, it would make him exhausted after spending over 20 years living in mental anguish with very little support from failing MH services and a cocktail of meds and therapies that have done very little.

If he ever takes his life (god forbid) he will still be one of the strongest people I have ever known.

I don't know whether it's normal but I have certainly wished I wouldn't wake up sometimes. I have sometimes thought about DH finding me and what the aftermath would be like.

I would never act on it. I don't want to die at all but sometimes living is painful.

I wonder about this, and in fact posted a thread recently which got deleted because I mentioned the specific plan I'd had.

I have thought about suicide on and off since I was about 13. However recently I experienced real mental distress at the end of my last pregnancy and had very specific, detailed and entirely realistic plans for what I'd do if the birth went badly. These thoughts replayed in my head constantly night and day, preventing me from sleeping and meaning that I simply stayed up at night crying or walking the streets.

But I didn't actually attempt suicide in the end. So I am guessing that falls under "suicidal ideation" rather than "being suicidal"?

It's something that im thinking of more and more (have another thread in 30 days about my troubles).

Before, my dc were my protective factor. These days im not enough for them and I know they'd be better off without me, so it's something that seems to be an escape route from my pain. I'm screaming inside and no one is listening and no one cares. If only I was brave enough....

So I don't think it's abnormal at all.

Yes I think it is important to destigmatise suicidal thoughts that are vague and not really a sign of anything. Alongside things such as hearing voices when you are not mentally ill.
I put it on the same level as kids screaming at their parents that they hate them. They don't (at least usually) hate them, they are just angry with them. And these suicidal vague thoughts don't mean you want to kill yourself. It means - shit things are hard at the moment.

Alongside things such as hearing voices when you are not mentally ill.

I thought actually hallucinating voices was a sign of mental illness? Is it possible to hear voices but not be mentally unwell?

Johnny I think that is different to what I am talking about. I think once you have a realistic plan, that you do need to seek help. Hope things are getting better for you.

AynRand I don't hear voices, but yes I have read research that it is more common to hear voices than used to be thought, and that if it is not causing any issues and you know they are not real, that it is not a sign of mental illness. What I read was that some people hear their internal thoughts as if they were actual voices. It must be a way the brain is wired, like people who see numbers as colours for example.

I had to speak to some people this week about the abuse I experienced during childhood. They were shocked when I told them that I plan to end my life before I get old as I can’t risk being in the hands of others ever again. I was then shocked that they were shocked because it just seems logical to me. They kept asking if I had made plans or if I’d told my GP. Most people can’t even get an appointment with their GP these days. What’s the GP going to do if you tell them you want to die? There’s no mental health care anyway, so I think they’d sooner not hear it.

I think about suicide every day, but have responsibilities at the moment, so it’ll have to wait. I do think the authorities should allow people to die when they’re ready instead of all this godsquad handwringing “you can’t kill yourself” nonsense. They’re quite happy to see people live in torment though.

When you have experience of someone close to you killing themselves, I think you can comment on cowardice, selfishness etc. because in those moments that’s how it feels to you. There are so many different reasons that people kill themselves that there are bound to be so many reactions to it. One thing is common though - it is devastating to those close to the person.

I have never thought of it. I don't think it's normal at all. It wouldn't even be on my radar.

Yes thanks Crunchy. I find birth difficult bc I have a history of SA in a clinical setting and it brings back bad thoughts. My consultant was insistent that bc it was a high risk pg, I had to give birth in a room full of staff inc men. I could not cope with that at all and felt torn between thinking I should object or should go through with it as it was medical advice and then get rid of myself as I would be too broken to be a good mother anymore.

Fortunately I gave birth VERY fast so that medical attendance was impossible and I birthed alone. I think my body saved me that day by expelling the babies as soon as I was alone.

I am mucy better now although still have random flashbacks/ bad moments.

What I read was that some people hear their internal thoughts as if they were actual voices. It must be a way the brain is wired, like people who see numbers as colours for example.

Synaesthesia? I have that and I do sometimes have my internal thoughts as 'voices' but I can't 'hear' them. I just know in my head how they would sound. I've had visual hallucinations and I could actually see the thing that wasn't there.

I guess that's not the same thing.

I think more people than will even realise themselves have said or thought "o can't carry anymore".

I'm not sure it's suicidal ideation and I think we'd have to be clear on the definition of that before deciding how many people have had the thought.

My ds has said "I'd rather die than ...." before but he had Mh problems and probably had more intent than some have.

I think that thinking about how you would do it and in which circumstance you might is a normal thought to have.

It's the wanting to and feeling that you have no other choice/can't cope with life that makes the difference. This means you may be unwell and in need of support.

But what support? From where? I think i know I'm unwell and I'm pretty sure I also know what has caused / contributed to it.
What I don't know though is HOW to fix it, or if I want to carry on with life feeling so miserable, in turmoil and lonely.

Just think of all the millions who believe some sort of God is talking to them....

Some people never hear their own voice in their head? Or do you mean that they don't hear other people's voices when they imagine a conversation with them?

Johnny Glad the birth was fine in the end and things are getting better.

namechanged I have heard that saneline is a good starting place.

namehanged GP is a good place to start, but there are other places. [https://bryonysmadworld.telegraph.co.uk/e/mad-world-mandy-stevens/ This podcast] lists a few places

There's medication. That helps in the short term, and the experience of feeling not-depressed also helps you recognise when you are depressed, and realise that you could potentially be in the same situation but not feeling the same.
There's talking therapy. That gets a weight off your chest, offers you coping methods and helps unskew your judgement again.
There's CBT. That helps stop automatic reactions that might be plaguing you.
There's people to talk to in an emergency. They can help if you need calming down.
And all of these things help you realise that you are not entirely alone, there are people out there whose job it is to help you.

Try again ... This podcast

Is it possible to hear voices but not be mentally unwell?

I've always heard voices and I'm as fit as a psychiatrists dog afaik. I think it's just my brains way of ordering things. They are definitely worse if I am very stressed. They tend to go very booming if I'm stressed, whereas when I'm not they just chunter away in the background. I also get overly loud music when stressed.

I thought about it very rarely, until I had pnd. I've thought about it nearly every day since. I wouldn't do anything but often I really feel the weight of life a lot of the time, and I struggle to deal with it. Thinking of a 'way out' is sometimes the release I need.

When I was in the depths of pnd and I would verbalise my thoughts in the middle of the night to my husband and he would say that he would put my dd in the care of his mum or social services as he can't look after her on his own and I felt so trapped. It's not like I would have done it. But I felt like the freedom to do whatever was gone. I know that sounds really weird.

I reckon normal. Life is fucking hard, gruelling, emotional, difficult, painful and obviously beautiful but it doesn't surprise me that it's part of the human condition.