This wasn't flirting... help I need some perspective

[peoniepants]

I’m at my wits end and feeling desperate.

My husband is acting like a right fucker towards me.

I need some perspective.

Whole family at family themed place yesterday - families there and my husband too. My daughter starts playing with a younger child. I got chatting to the Dad whilst they were playing. He was nice enough - but not attractive and not my type, just a nice bloke. I didn’t fancy him and was chatting to him whilst waiting for my daughter to finish playing with his kid.

My husband is in the vicinity but doesn’t come over. Afterwards he kicks off. Apparently he was listening to our conversation out of sight and I was flirting and acting like a whore (which is bollocks! I know myself!). Also he says I was talking to this guy for far too long. He has massively overreacted and stormed out this morning for the whole day leaving me with no car and two kids upset and worrying where daddy is. I’ve just tried to talk to him again but he has got it fixed in his head that I was flirting and disrespecting him by doing it right in front of him. I won’t back down. I’m not going to ‘admit’ to something I haven’t done.

He’s really angry and has escalated massively and he has thrown my out of the bedroom (for 2 nights now) , acting like a man child and the kids know something is very wrong. He has form with doing this kind of shit.

I’ve told him that the kids are upset and we need to discuss it rationally but he doesn’t seem to care about that. Says he’s going out all day tomorrow as well.

I am so tired of his behaviour. He does this every time I ‘upset’ him. It’s so frustrating.

Also it’s my sons birthday next week and I already think he’s going to ruin it but either being in a huge mood or just storming off for the day. I don’t think I could forgive that.

Such a fucking child.

@Graphista that thought also crossed my mind this morning too! It could work really well.

Please ring women’s aid or the refuge local to you, there will be one. They will help you, you can’t also ring 101 for help. I can tell you this is serious, his behaviour would be enough for you to call the police and for their domestic violence team to be able to help you. All you ha e to do is ask for help

My daughter said to me yesterday 'just say sorry to him mummy and tell him you love him'

This alone means the children are getting messed up in the head - it doesn't mean she blames you, it means she has seen you pacify your husband before and wants the arguing to stop.
This is not how you want your daughter bringing up, you don't want your children to learn that this behaviour is ok!

I also agree with @Graphista - the living situation with your brother could be a really good idea both for emotional & financial support... PLEASE phone him and tell him what's been going on.

And remember;

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!

If you leave now it will mean less disruption in the long run for your children. They haven't started their new schools yet and you will find another for them.

You'll be better off when you're all out of there.
He will never change. He chose you because you were kind - but don't be a doormat.
It's a bit like you're a lovely pale colour and he's a dark colour - a drop of his unkind and unhappy ink will change your colour, but a drop of yours won't lighten his.
It's all his shit. Leave him with it - he had chance to change and didn't.
Not your fault or job to fix.

@PeoniePants I feel so awful for you because I know exactly what you are going through.

This was my ex all over. They act like children. Like everyone is expected to accept their behavior because of what they've been through as if it gives them a life long free pass to treat other people in the same way they say damaged them as a child.

I would get things thrown at me, called a slut or whore right up in my face because someone at an event asked my name and I told them, he was standing right next to me and was involved in the conversation too but apparently I was after him because why else would this man need to know what my name was?

I was told i was a vile, selfish and uncaring person if I didn't research daily how to help someone with his issues. That he didn't need to see anyone for help if I would just make the effort to look into how to help him (as if I'm a bloody professional!)

They make you feel responsible for their mental health. They wouldn't be like this if we didn't act up and 'trigger it'. They never act like this with anyone else because no one else angers them as much as we do.

It's all lies. It's their way of justifying their disgusting behavior and sometimes it's really hard to see it for what it is because you're tired and you just want it to end so you apologise, or start to think maybe it is because of you. Maybe if I did just make more effort to change myself everything would be fine. It won't. He will look for any excuse to take his anger/ emotions out on you and nothing you do will ever be good enough.

It damaged me, still to this day I'm nervous when I think I've upset someone even though most of the time I haven't, it's just something I know ex would have been upset with.

Like your DH, he was charm personified. Some people were in utter shock when I decided to stop covering it up and told them what he was really like. But a lot of them knew. They'd seen small hints of things and they were all relieved for me I'd got out. My mum told me she'd cried to her husband on more than one occasion because she could see me changing and becoming a shell but she couldn't do anything about it.

It's hard because I do think these people like your DH and my ex genuinely believe they aren't in the wrong. That is why you can't reason with them because their minds don't work logically like mine and yours. They are so set in their beliefs that the world is against them that they can't be talked around or calmy discuss a situation & accept the damage they are causing. It's a toxic environment to be in for you and you really need to get out when you can. For yours and your DC sake.

I wonder if he’s heading for a breakdown? Which, by the way, is not your fault at all. Keep writing on here, OP, it’s all useful evidence and for venting!

Your husband is following the same script that I've read about so many times in here. The blaming, not taking responsibility for his own actions, gaslighting you to believe it's all your fault.

He's emotionally abusive and controlling and getting worse because he's noticing that you're resisting the quick apology he expects & starting to fight back.

All this time your children are watching and learning that this is how relationships work - if you don't want to leave for you, please leave for their sakes. They need to be away from him and need to know that this is not how two people who love each other should act.

Please talk to women's aid. Find out your rights and how to get away from him. That's the important thing, not schools etc, just getting him away from you.

He’s now started with violence- something soft, so he can say it was only a pillow and what are you on about, but it’s started.

I would stop protesting his going away to the friend. He is setting you up for an argument and an excuse for abuse every single time. Don’t be feisty to his face, be feisty by being smart and planning to get out. Go to the GP on some pretext (gynae problems that he will feign disgust at perhaps, so no questions) and explain what is happening, ask for help. Include the fact that he is now throwing things at you.

I would also contact the DV unit of your local police.

Do not believe a word about your husband’s counselling. Excellent progress my arse.

I have been there, the only saving grace was that I didn't have children.

You feel as though you are constantly walking on eggshells, trying to remember all of the rules. If you're better then maybe today will be a good day and you don't have to be scared of the sound of the key in the door.

I grew up with a father like that and then years later, because it was normal for me, I married a man just like him. My father and my exH had both had hard lives, maternal abandonment for one and a difficult relationship for the other. They both had an endless series of rules for me, ways I should behave to make them happy and I tried, but you know what, it didn't work because nothing was ever good enough. They didn't trust or like women and even when I followed the rules, they always found a way that I had messed up somehow. I wasn't allowed to speak to anyone either, especially men, which I now see was because I might realise their behaviour wasn't normal - or with my exH - I might find someone else who would treat me better.

You did not cause this. You cannot fix it. You must also remember that you are relying on him telling you the truth about the therapy sessions. With a controlling person, like he is, you cannot trust anything he says as he will be manipulative and is already gaslighting you into his reality.

You must think of your children. Your daughter is already learning to placate angry men, to change behaviours to keep them happy. People who grow up in abusive homes often go on to repeat the cycle. Is this what you want for your children?

Call Women's Aid. But please be careful. He seems to be escalating. When my exH realised his control over me was broken he threatened me with a knife and I had to call the police.

He’s now started with violence- something soft, so he can say it was only a pillow and what are you on about, but it’s started

Yes, this!

I got 'it was only a shoe, don't be so dramatic'

No one should be throwing anything at you in an aggressive manner whether it's a brick or a bloody silk nighty! It's wrong.

If someone did that to you in the street you'd think they were being violent and everyone walking by would too. It's not the way normal adults engage with each other. Especially not ones you claim to love.

The fact that both you and your brother found themselves in abusive relationships makes me think there was something in your childhood to set yourselves up to be with abusers. I’m not saying your parents were or were not abusive. People can also be too nice and not have good boundaries. I’d definitely be looking at living with your brother. If you can make it work it will do wonders to heal the children.

I don't want to put the boot in, but you and your children are being damaged daily living like you currently do. It's really not a better situation than your brother's. His is visible; yours is covered.

Your children are already displaying signs of being stressed and anxious about their dad's behaviour and learning what appeases him. Continuing to model this relationship to them is not doing them any favours.

I agree with the PP that living together with your brother could work really well for both families.

Does he disappear back down to London when he goes off? Was he booked off work this week or does he have very flexible working?

Thanks so much everyone. Such good and wise advice on here - I'm overwhelmed by everyone's kindness.

My head is reeling and I'm trying to work out what my plan of action is today. He's just gone so I can make some phone calls. But I know this isn't something I'm going to do overnight. Small steps etc.

Writing on here is really helping. It helps calm my mind and also it is great evidence and the only safe place I can write it down.

So quick update

I could hear him in the kitchen first thing. My daughter and I were in the sitting room chatting and cuddling and giggling and after a while he came in a brought me a cup of tea. he was grumpy but he spoke to me and I thought maybe he was starting to calm down. I thanked him and that was it.

I got up and started pottering in the kitchen, unpacking the dishwasher and getting on with jobs. He was around but I ignored him. Didn't engage or try to speak or argue.

Just before he leaves he comes up to me and says angrily 'just so you know your aggressive bullying behaviour towards me has worked and I won't be going away with friend. Your aggression towards me has worked. You've got your own way (he's referring to me getting upset about him missing birthday). I know your apology was bullshit because as soon as you don't get your own way (getting upset about missed birthday) you got nasty. Your apology means nothing. I'm beginning to see what you are really like!!'

I tried to explain that wasn't the case but then stopped realising it wouldn't work. I wasn't aggressive and I'm not a bully - I just got upset that he easily disregarded his child so was emotional.

He then said goodbye to the kids and said he would see them later. Then went out and drove off leaving the front door wide open behind him!

Meanwhile I'm left standing there thinking what the hell just happened. A whirlwind of irrational crazy talk dumped on me and then no right of reply because he left straight away.

I was starting to feel calm but now I'm all over the place.

(Btw I think he's really changed his mind about going away because I said last night during the row I was going to tell my brother what's been happening and he doesn't want me to do that so he's staying put)

Please call women’s aid now, or your local refuge you can google it as they might be more likely to answer. They can talk to you and give you advice about how to deal with your husband

@Mummyoflittledragon I agree with you. Had an epiphany this morning. My other brother (who lives abroad) has just managed to get out of a 4 year relationship with a narc personality. I think we are all the same. Nice kind people who have been taken advantage of. Our mum was perfectly nice but just emotionally unavailable (we suspect she had some kind of personality disorder) so maybe that's why we all seek out the same type of person.

OP - you children will not blame you. You are the adult, you do what you need to do for the good of the children and also yourself. There is no blame to be attached to you.

Eventually, you can explain in age-appropriate terms, why you needed to split from 'daddy' but for now, it is what it is.

Please speak to WA today. And a solicitor.

was starting to feel calm but now I'm all over the place.

Mission accomplished. That's EXACTLY what he wants. You were having a nice time with your daughter, so he builds you up by bringing you a cup of tea your give you a bit of hope then throws you down again to ruin your day.

That's a shame he's not going away so you'd have space to think and act. It sounds as if he senses he needs to stay to re-exert his control. Keep yourself safe by pretending he has it. But tell your brother or someone else IRL anyway. You have nothing to be ashamed of.

This must be so overwhelming for you. I am so sorry you're going through this. It's really important for you to remember this is not your fault, you deserve much better and there is actually a better life waiting for you when you're ready.

OP.
You're being so brave and sensible. Think of a life without this nasty behaviour, there is a light at the end of the tunnel x

It's not your fault. None of it is your fault

It's not your fault
It's not your fault
It's not your fault!

Very best wishes to you and your children to get this rubbish life sorted out. You do not have to live like this

Setting up a home with your uk brother COULD work really well.

Tempting as it is for your own safety please don't say any more about disclosing to others or plans to leave - that massively increases the risk to you.

Quietly but quickly make plans without letting on to him. Even placate him a little (not so much he gets suss).

Honestly I think it would be much better if you could pack up and just go today. Just head straight to your younger bro's while he's out the way.

Seriously, stuff can be replaced, kids adapt, especially when they're out of a toxic environment, benefits etc can be applied for there's even emergency funds for this type of situation and WA and other charities can help too.

There's no real good reason to STAY is there?

OP please call Women's Aid, his behaviour is rapidly escalating, he is irrational and, having been in a similar situation, I really fear for your & your children's safety. Please use this opportunity whilst he's out of the house to make that call. This is not going to get better for you or your children unless you take action.

Oh dear god. The kids have just come to chat to me and have a cuddle. They told me they don't like the arguing and I said that sometimes grown ups argue etc. Then my daughter said are you arguing because you flirted with that man!! And my son said no she wasn't flirting just chatting because you were playing with his daughter. I've cuddled them and reassured them but oh god.

I asked my husband to keep his voice down last night so they didn't hear the arguing but he said that they need to know what their mother is like!

Remember, it's nothing to do with who you are or what you do. It's all about what's in his head. This is a game you can never win because you're playing against the referee. The rules are whatever he says they are, and that changes with the wind. Do not make the mistake of trying to make sense of it all. You'll only fry your brain.

It's time to stop thinking of all the reasons why you have to stay with him and start looking at ways to get out - Graphista's excellent suggestion for one. XH (who was somewhat like yours but not nearly so aggressive with it) shot himself in the foot by ringing his sister overseas, deliberately in my hearing, and telling her we were getting a divorce. He talked about how we would split assets and where we would live, how the DC would spend time with both of us, where they'd go to school, suggested she come over and share a house with him as she was going through a divorce at the time. We had not been talking about divorce at all, and it turned out he didn't mean a word of it. It was too late though. I'd seen the light, and would never get back into that box again. Ten years happily apart now!

You can do this. And you need to do this. If nothing else, do it for the poor man who is suffering so much from your unbearable presence