This wasn't flirting... help I need some perspective

[peoniepants]

I’m at my wits end and feeling desperate.

My husband is acting like a right fucker towards me.

I need some perspective.

Whole family at family themed place yesterday - families there and my husband too. My daughter starts playing with a younger child. I got chatting to the Dad whilst they were playing. He was nice enough - but not attractive and not my type, just a nice bloke. I didn’t fancy him and was chatting to him whilst waiting for my daughter to finish playing with his kid.

My husband is in the vicinity but doesn’t come over. Afterwards he kicks off. Apparently he was listening to our conversation out of sight and I was flirting and acting like a whore (which is bollocks! I know myself!). Also he says I was talking to this guy for far too long. He has massively overreacted and stormed out this morning for the whole day leaving me with no car and two kids upset and worrying where daddy is. I’ve just tried to talk to him again but he has got it fixed in his head that I was flirting and disrespecting him by doing it right in front of him. I won’t back down. I’m not going to ‘admit’ to something I haven’t done.

He’s really angry and has escalated massively and he has thrown my out of the bedroom (for 2 nights now) , acting like a man child and the kids know something is very wrong. He has form with doing this kind of shit.

I’ve told him that the kids are upset and we need to discuss it rationally but he doesn’t seem to care about that. Says he’s going out all day tomorrow as well.

I am so tired of his behaviour. He does this every time I ‘upset’ him. It’s so frustrating.

Also it’s my sons birthday next week and I already think he’s going to ruin it but either being in a huge mood or just storming off for the day. I don’t think I could forgive that.

Such a fucking child.

Said I was only telling him what he wanted to hear to make it all stop and because it was 'getting serious'.

I'm worried for your safety, OP. Will you have a chance to call Women's Aid this morning?

If you were to leave him, would your preference be to stay where you are (i.e. he moves out) or you move away (closer to your family)?

Then don’t forgive him. Detach, love. Think of your babies, and find your battered sense of pride. It was the thought of my future babies which got me out of a relationship like this.

No, none of this is your fault. If you hadn't been chatting to the other father, your husband would have picked on something else to make a drama of. He was just looking for an excuse, and even if you had behaved perfectly according to his "rules" he would have made something up or decided that your behaviour in itself was deeply suspicious. He really sounds pretty unhinged.

Please use these few days when he's away to get in touch with Women's Aid, see a solicitor, and get yourself and your children to a place of safety.

This sounds just like me 18 months ago. I realised then that I was living with an abuser and it took me another 6 months to get out. A year down the line from that, I thank my lucky stars every day that I don't need to walk on eggshells, change my behaviour, minimise his behaviour to the children. Life doesn't have to be like that. Yes it was/still is hard sometimes but i didnt want my children to grow up thinking that is what relationships are like and become abusers or abused themselves. How do you feel? Is it the end of the road for you? I know it's an awful lot to process, especially when you still have to function/take care of children etc.

Several possibilities:

He's projecting/deflecting (Google these, inc "psychology" "jealousy" in search string) - cheating or planning to himself and so thinks he sees the same behaviour in you. He's judging you based on his own actions/morals. But yes also sometimes so they can justify such actions in their own mind and even later to others, claim it was revenge cheating.

Is there a pattern to when he decides you've "upset" him? You mention sons birthday and that he's likely to spoil this - does he not like others inc his own DC getting more attention than him? Would also explain his not liking you giving attention to another/getting attention. My father is like this. Totally narc & toxic, almost every birthday, Xmas, celebration without him at the centre ruined by overreaction to things that wouldn't normally fuss him. Very jealous/possessive too.

"What is that? Why!" More googling - particularly npd (narcissistic personality disorder), toxic parenting.

outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/false-accusations-and-distortion-campaigns

outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/holiday-anniversary-memory-triggers

Think you'll find this site very useful.

"it follows a pattern" another Google - cycle of abuse.

Counselling doesn't change abusers - it just gives them more excuses to abuse.

Plus what theBewilderness said.

Sunshine - counselling where there is abuse - ESPECIALLY emotional abuse - is NOT recommended, nor is staying in an abusive marriage "for the kids" your viewpoint is antiquated!

I left my cheat ex at a point where I wasn't working, was hundreds of miles from family/friends, getting a job was tough etc. Within 4 months I had (with help from the right places) found somewhere else to live, got a new bank account and was receiving benefits, at the end of it got a job and childcare for dd, had started divorce proceedings and was free of his mess! You can do it!

I also think it's distinctly possible that his mother was abused in exactly the same way you are being - less open knowledge then, less easy for women to leave with DC etc. - I think it's entirely possible rather than her 'abandoning' him that his father manipulated things such that she couldn't take her child/ren with her. Have you met his parents?

"His father treated his mother very badly and after several years of similar behaviour - she left him." There's the truth!

Plan your exit. But DON'T tell him or even hint that you're thinking of leaving.

Make sure he can't find what you're writing down, or this thread. Clear your history and log out of mn unless you're safe to be on here. With the suicide threat I too am concerned he could become violent. When safe to do so as well as women's aid contact local police ask to speak to domestic abuse team.

www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/making-a-safety-plan/#1447926965295-8f67f8a6-62c7

HE IS LYING - you have done nothing wrong. PLEASE get out ASAP!

"because I'm scared of it escalating- it has in the past" what EXACTLY does this mean? Has he physically gone for you?

"slam doors, slam things about" thats still violence and shows that he IS capable of hurting you or the kids.

PLEASE call police/women's aid ASAP

"Also his therapy has now stopped - he only had 8 sessions and his therapist told him that she was going to use him as a car study of great recovery and progress! He definitely did have therapy. With a psychologist not counsellor."

Bullshit! I believe he really was seeing a psychologist BUT NOBODY is cured in 8 sessions, especially with all he's claiming! He can't have it all ways! Either he's cured and therefore nothing you do would be that much of a problem. Or he isn't and he's quit (possibly in temper at psychologist seeing straight through him) or been discharged for not properly engaging.

Does he work? So you'll have a time you can call police/women's aid safely?

Abuse never starts straight away or nobody would stay with them! Did it start when you were pregnant?

Let him go away with his friend - your son will likely have a much better birthday WITHOUT him around and it would give you a chance to get out.

He won't slag you to your joint friends if he has any sense (which I suspect he does) because that says FAR more about him than you!

Where's your brother? I know if I were in your situation and called my bro he'd be here in a few hours, helping me and kids pack and telling dickwad to not even THINK about coming near me!

Actually, he'd probably pack HIS things and kick him out with an "I fucking DARE you to come after her mate, give me an excuse!"

Why didn't you mention bro before? How far away is he?

Thank you @newmumintown I'm worried the children are going to blame me for all of it. The missed birthday and also whatever is on the horizon over the next few weeks. They know that we are arguing and that daddy is upset with me. My daughter said to me yesterday 'just say sorry to him mummy and tell him you love him' so they already think it's me!! I can't stand it and don't know how to explain it to them without hurting them.

I too am worried for your safety. This is escalating badly. Again, I don't want to alarm you but there are so many red flags that I think you are now in serious danger (I am a specialist in this area of work). There is some great practical advice on this thread about keeping yourself safe - take note!

You asked if you told a professional if the information would be shared. The answer is yes - at least in theory although information sharing protocols are not always followed as well as they should be. In my experience GPs are the least likely to share (although you cant rely on this). Apart from specialists like Women's Aid, Health Visitors are often the most helpful professionals managing to help you AND your children whereas many of the others focus solely on your children. If you cant get through to Womens Aid, try putting 'domestic abuse' into the search engine of your local council website. This should give you contact details for a local service which may be easier to get through to.

Please keep yourself safe - honour your gut and dont be fooled into thinking you might be over-reacting.

Ok just seen this mornings updates PLEASE as soon as he's out the house call the police - not WA the police - he's escalating rapidly and I'm genuinely concerned for you.

I'm the child of an abuser & victim.

Please don't hesitate or second guess or not do it for fear of ss involvement.

You need this guy away and KEPT away NOW!

I'll lay odds you'll barely get half of it said before police are on their way to you IF you're honest (I suspect you're holding back even here but that when you start talking to someone irl the floodgates will open - not uncommon)

It also sounds as if he's been sexually abusing you too.

This cannot continue. With his escalating anger and his focus being on the sexual part of your relationship...

POLICE ASAP

"We've only just recently moved away - quite some distance away from friends"
Noticed this, has he escalated after he's moved you away from your support network? You've also said you're in a rural location with no public transport, were you in a town or city previously? It really sounds like he has physically isolated you.
If you are able to leave are you able to move back and possibly get your kids back into their old school if you want to minimise any disruption to them?

Annie I think you and I are thinking similarly - too much experience of this shit. From different angles.

Thanks @Graphista for all then links and advice. Brother is much much younger than me (15 years) and 18 years younger than my DH. He is going through his own issues/MH stuff so is not the in the right headspace to come and confront my DH nor is he that type of personality either - very quiet and gentle. He lives about 30 miles away so we can get together and salvage the birthday. Both sets of parents are dead too so no older adults to ask for help.

And from your last post I don't think your daughter is blaming you it looks like she has already learnt that's how you stop daddy being mad and have a happy home

Your children will thank you for it believe me!!!
Imagine living with them with no conflict, walking on egg shells etc - they WILL thank you.
You need to do something here before it's too late. Ring WA, ring your brother. Start getting some real help and support.

Absolutely spot on @Itwasntme101

It's such a massive upheaval and change for them already and now this happening to them on top of that and it's all my fault

NO.

Just NO. It is NOT your fault. NONE of this is your fault. You need to understand that ALL of what you have told us in this thread is HIS fault. NONE of it is your's. He is a manipulative, controlling, abusive cunt and you need to leave him because:
a) he will not change
b) your children will grow up thinking this is what a family dynamic is like and repeat the pattern with their children
c) your children will grow up thinking this is what a relationship is like and repeat the pattern with their children

PLEASE do whatever you have to to leave this sorry excuse for a human being because it will not get better, it will only get worse. Follow this advice of calling Women's Aid and the other steps other posters have mentioned.

How far away is "home"? Your brother? Have you enough cash right now to get home by combination of taxi/public transport? If the answer is yes I would say;

Soon as he's gone gather all important paperwork/documents

Pack as much as you can reasonably take (remember most 'stuff' can be replaced) try to remember sentimental items eg photos, heirloom jewellery.

Call a taxi and GO!

I'll bet if you show up at your brothers, an old friends (even if you haven't spoken in a while) and tell them what's happening they'll do all they can to help. Hell even tip up at your old GP's!

I once had an emergency situation and was stuck and tipped up at a friends ex's house (was only person home it was Xmas) she was AMAZING! Fed dd and I, let me kip on her sofa a couple nights till I could get sorted.

People are generally helpful.

So your daughter is already learning the behaviour of the abused. Sorry, that sounds harsh, but really think about it. There is a great section in the Lundy Bancroft book about this, how the rest of the family (not the abuser) start to turn on each other as a result of trying to appease the abuser. You can break this cycle by removing you all from this situation. I realise that it's incredibly hard, particularly if you've only just come to the realisation that you're in an abusive relationship, to think beyond the here and now, but life can be so much better. Take your time, think, talk to your brother if you feel you can, but please let this be a turning point in your life. We're all here for you.

What's your brothers living situation? Is there physical space for you there? If yes I'm still sure he'd help in any way he can.

If you were my sis and turned up in this situation you'd be welcome.

If not bro I'm SURE an old friend, GP, hv will help.

Your children don’t truly believe you are to blame. Please don’t think that. Children, who are living abuse don’t understand that it is abuse. They just want everything to be better and in your dds innocent head, she thinks / hopes an apology will sort this. If anything she is learning how to placate others, especially men.

I totally agree that you should call the police as soon as you feel able.

The fact that you couldn’t call women’s aid in case he came back, that he has said you’re placating him to avoid escalation coupled with his violence in the night means you and your children are in very real danger.

Please don’t be afraid to escalate this and cause upset to your children. They are permanently on high alert and experiencing feelings they should not be feeling simply by living this terribly home life. They need to know that there is someone out there, who is able to help keep them safe and the police are there for this. Much as they will be very scared in time they will be incredibly relieved. As a child I wanted to be rescued. You have the opportuinty to offer this to them.

Thanks @Graphista my real home, the one we moved from is almost 200 miles away. We moved from greater/north London to up north. I can't afford to go back. We moved due to finances.

My father Drew us in to the abuse as proxy abusers - makes me feel sick to think of it now, but we didn't know any better. Then as we got older the abuse went to us too.

For me that was sexual abuse, for my bro physical - until he got big enough that he could hit back just as hard! He left home not long after that point. I also left home quite young. Sis it was emotional - mainly gaslighting at first, then when that stopped working (and coincided with bro leaving) turned physical. She too left not long after that point. I actually left home at the oldest age despite being the first to leave. As the eldest.

I later learned during my own therapy this wasn't unusual, I'd stayed to try and protect the others (and failed).

Who's your eldest? Your son? He's 10 next week, in a few years he'll also be testosterone fuelled. He'll start hitting back (possibly literally) that puts him at more risk too.

My bro's said a few times that part of why he left so young was he was afraid he would completely lose it with dad and kill him. And dad isn't worth him ruining his life. No abuser is worth that. But bro is only human and anyone can only be pushed so far.

My bro is going through a horrible dv with his ex who is a controlling bullying narc. I've seen what she has done to him and their child throughout the separation and DV process (which she instigated and then deliberately prolonged). It's taken over two years for it to go through and the impact of her behaviour on my bro and child has been devastating to their MH and also finances. - I don't know if I have the strength to go through all of that and make it out the other side.

Alternatively you and your brother could support each other re your ex's while living together, thus providing company for each other. Plus cheaper for 2 adults to live together than separately and he's only 30 miles away.

It COULD actually work out really well.

You could share chores and household management...means a little less stress for you both on that score.

Kids get to live in a more relaxed home.

Stranger things have happened.

So on top of everything else he's sexually abusive too. He coerces you into having sex with him by sulking if you don't let him have sex on you often enough. So you give in for an easy life, and you have to play the part in his fantasy that he deems you have to play. He doesn't have to hit you for it to be abuse. There's never going to be a good time to leave but do you really and truly think your children will thank you for putting yourself through this hell "for their sake"? Leaving him will be hard but my god it is so worth it. You deserve to be loved and cherished.

When was the last time you felt appreciated?

I don't know if I have the strength to go through all of that and make it out the other side.

You're seeing what an abusive person has done to your brother, so you know full well the situation you are in yourself.

Sorry, but find the strength. If you can't find it for yourself, find it for your poor children. You really MUST step up now for them.