To be not looking forward to NYC holiday

[Kakamora]

Because of a post I’ve just seen about servers complaining they’ve had a tip that doesn’t reflect what they spent on food.

Yes I know that tips top up their wages but I want to take my mum on some pretty fancy dinners while we’re there and just because I spend $100 dollars which I’ve saved up my minimum wage money for, I don’t see why some server thinks that’s entitles he to a $20 tip because I’m spending a lot of money.

It is annoying me thinking I will have to save around an additional £150 for tip money. I always tip, but I don’t think waitresses here in the U.K. (which I am part time, think that spending £100 you know people have budgeted for warrants an expensive tip

Servers pay in most NYC restaurants was set by unions. Employers don't have to pay anything above the $3/HR minimum if they make $11.75 an hour after tips.

Not tipping is just rude though. Absolutely no need for it and if you don't like the place don't come.

Adding some sort of standard tip (15-20%) to the bill for parties of 6 or more is really common here (in my part of the US). It's not limited to Disney. It's not universal, but it's common enough that I'd be surprised to go to a sit down restaurant and NOT have that be the case.

I think you just include it and that's it if that means you have to eat somewhere a bit cheaper then so be it. I had a great experience in New York this year - plenty of tipping lead to plenty of complimentary drinks - win win

Great, now I've got an ad for MSC cruises in my sidebar. Can't say I've ever cruised with that line, but hey, if the price is right!

...let's not pretend servers are reduced to eating scraps purely on the basis of what they take home.

Absolutely - but if everyone decided not to tip because a server may be taking home a theoretical $30 per hour servers would end up sleeping in cardboard boxes under highway overpasses.

People who work waiting tables are often students who have bills to pay - tuition and room and board or tuition, food and rent. Even a student from a family with a poverty line income or below will still end up with a bill for about $30k per year (a total of $120,000 for a four year undergrad degree) for an out of state student in all but the most selective NYC (and US in general) universities.

Wait staff are taxed (federal and state taxes) and must pay social security and Medicare levies too. A parent can claim a student up to age 23 as a dependent on their taxes iirc, making the student/waiter's personal exemption smaller than it would be if nobody claimed them as a dependent. For some families, parents claiming students means a family - parents, grandparents, younger siblings - can afford a home, or qualify for Medicaid, and the students take on the responsibility of self-funding through university and taking the tax hit.

On top of that, textbooks are prohibitively expensive - depending on the subject, required books can easily run to $500+ a pop and you could very easily be faced with a bill for a few thousand dollars for books every semester.

A lot of waiters are subletting shared rooms and just about getting by.

What a load of bollocks. It really isn't a thing in the UK.

THANK you! As you say, it isn't, but some are always adamant it is on these tipping type threads.
America yes (wouldn't like it, but of course I would!) UK, as you say, loads of bollocks as tipping is only a thing if you want it to be.

We found that the tipping system does make for (IMO) over attentive waiting staff which we found a tad irritating.

You can ask your waiter to leave you alone unless you beckon, then tip for that of course.

The point of the service thing in restaurants in the US is that you get the service you ask for and then you pay for it.

It's not a take it or leave it deal.

Just back from the US and service was no better than UK (ie variable) and food no cheaper sad to say. But yes, the service element is usually on the bill in any case, just not on the menu prices

@mathanxiety
nothing you have written justifies paying staff under $4 an hour

Ta1kin Waitstaff are not paid $4 an hour. If their tips don't mean they are paid minimum wage their employer has to pay them the difference. Depending on their union, the wage is set higher. I know two dishwashers making $30 an hour in hotels here in midtown. They are union jobs and have been doing it for 12 years.

Ta1kinpeace
...you would rather defend the tipping culture than force legislators to make the minimum wage something sensible like $10 an hour ?

Why should employers not have to pay the cost of their staff ?

Because margins are incredibly slim in the restaurant business and many would go out of business altogether if employee costs were higher, resulting in a net loss to the local economy and possibly many students dropping out of university, with further repercussions to the economy.

The system that has developed rewards employees who make the effort to earn the top tip (which gets shared among the invisible staff) which in turn makes the restaurant popular, which keeps the restaurant afloat, and you have a cycle of little fleas biting smaller fleas and so ad infinitum...

For the most part, there is an equilibrium in this particular niche.

For other industries the minimum wage is a solid concept. However, in the restaurant business there is an incentive to excel and possibly take home a good deal more than minimum wage, and it's a model that works fairly well. It has its problems of course, but nobody making minimum wage is going to be able to afford tuition in most universities, or a room.

There is an argument to be made for eliminating minimum wage and making employers pay whatever the labour market demands in big cities in the US.

@Ta1kinpeace

"(b) service is the USA is definitely no better than in other countries"

Maybe not in the touristy places in the US, but it most definitely is better overall in the South.

Never understood why people travel to some of the most expensive cities in the world and then complain that things were no cheaper than in the UK.

Also, the pound is dropping against the dollar. Duh.

A parent can claim a student up to age 23 as a dependent on their taxes iirc, making the student/waiter's personal exemption smaller than it would be if nobody claimed them as a dependent

Thanks, mathsanxiety - I was up to speed on most of what you wrote, but didn't know about this bit

if everyone decided not to tip because a server may be taking home a theoretical $30 per hour servers would end up sleeping in cardboard boxes

Yes, this is also true; as I said, it's why I go along with the "norm" when somewhere else - or if I can't work with it, just don't go. Overall it seems the only fair approach to take

See I don’t really get this idea of “if you don’t like it don’t go”. Surely then there’s a bigger loss to the economy as a whole. I said in an earlier post, I went to Egypt a couple of years ago and saw how the loss of tourism has impacted on them. Yes, the ideal would be they get lots of tipping tourists, but trust me they’d rather have any tourists at this point than none at all!

LeighaJ
Maybe not in the touristy places in the US, but it most definitely is better overall in the South.
Not sure what you are implying
but EVERYWHERE I travel across Europe and elsewhere
service is better than in the USA
its less "in your face" and more genuine and less "gimme a tip"
and NYC is not tourism for me - its home

I’m surprised to hear that. I definitely feel like the service in the UK is on average, worse than what I’ve received in the US.

And while some of the friendliness is for tips, some of it is because people are just friendly!

See I don’t really get this idea of “if you don’t like it don’t go”. Surely then there’s a bigger loss to the economy as a whole.

Because most people will abide by local customs. And the few who refuse are no big loss on such a huge economy anyway.

kismett
THe UK is not the world

leftright
acquiescence will never lead to change
change is needed
NYC min pay needs to rise to $9/hour
copping out is not the solution
the New Yorkers I love are working for change

I found the service much better in the US, although I did want to tell them to bugger off at times as I would tell them if there was something wrong and they don't need it check every 5 minutes!

Of course it isn’t. I assumed you included the UK in Europe. Although I don’t think I’ve received better service in other countries in Europe that I’ve been to either. I suppose we might have different expectations.

Well, maybe not for you, Talkin, but it's a free country and if people can patronise whatever establishment they wish. I don't much care for NYC, tbh, and haven't been there in years and probably won't ever go back.

Ta1kin Minimum wage is already over $9. It's $11 and change. The restaurant owner only pays if tips don't cover their time worked. The kitchen staff are pretty much all unionized in the big restaurants and the pay rates start at about $15/hr increasing with experience. It's the small restaurants, who are predominantly using illegals, who pay minimum wage. The waitstaff make a whole lot more than minimum wage which is why they share tips with the kitchen.

I think this is a bit of a cultural thing. As such I don't think it can be ignored. If you really didn't like the idea, then perhaps you should have said something before?

It's a bit like booking a trip to Saudi and then complaining you have to wear a niqab, in that it's part and parcel of going there I'm afraid.

I really don't think you should put so much emphasis on it though. You're going to NEW YORK!! The Big Apple! Statue of Liberty! Macys! Yellow taxis! Times Square! Take loads of photos and let the tips thing goooo. I'm sure you will not be looking back at photos and saying "the whole trip was ruined because we had to budget for tips"... 😂

Want2be
My moral issue is that the employers are not paying that wage.
In the UK tips are not allowed to comprise part of the minimum wage.
It should be the same in the USA.