To think that some types of 'western dress' e.g; high heels are as oppressive as the burka?

[malificent7]

Don't get me wrong; I have worn heels in the past in the dubious hope that they look 'sexy.' I have mostly ended up hobbling along at the end of the evening in pain and fed up, envious of those wearing trainers.
I do realise that women have a 'choice ' to wear garments such as heels, mini skirts and boob tubes but aibu to think that they are not garments of liberation but rather an over sexualised aesthetic imposed by the patriarchy.

I am not a massive fan of the burka and I do think that they have been enforced by the patriarchy for a different reason; to protect the modesty of the woman. I am very against the burka ban and I think Boris Johnson is a prick for his comments.

So both types of dress control women in different ways; the western dress to promote sexuality and the burka to hide it.

In short, women should wear what they want without government enforcement and comments from Boris and his ilk.

And before we talk about seeing women's faces when we talk to them and the obstruction to that that the burka causes; what about a full face of slap that many western girls embrace now?

I am no religious scholar, but I thought there was no religious reason for the burqa? It's a man-made ruling, No?

I am no religious scholar, but I thought there was no religious reason for the burqa? It's a man-made ruling, No?

What’s the difference?

The difference is it’s not a religious requirement but a recent invention has by men to subjugate silence insult and demean women.

It also demeans men as unable to stop their desire to rape anyone unless they are covered up.

It punished women for men’s inability to control their desires. And that’s frankly disgusting

I think that ANY heavy facial covering e.g. one that would have to be removed at the border to go past customs with a passport, should be banned.

The difference is it’s not a religious requirement but a recent invention has by men to subjugate silence insult and demean women

It’s all man made. Where do you really think ‘religious requirements’ come from?

Yes but this is a very strange and very sexist requirement.

That’s why it has no place in Britain. People can practise religion of course and rightly so but inherently sexist practises should be outlawed.

So for instance If the pope suddenly said all catholic women should wear crusifixs so large their whole face and body should be covered you would think that was insane. Wearing a burka is equally insane.

It's all man made. Where do you think 'religious requirments' come from?

I think the original point is that some are trying to protect the burka as being under the banner of being religiously tolerant and therefore should not come under scrutiny, it tries to brush under the carpet that it is banned in many Islamic countries and however you try and paint it is at conflict with western secular principals.

I think the original point is that some are trying to protect the burka as being under the banner of being religiously tolerant and therefore should not come under scrutiny, it tries to brush under the carpet that it is banned in many Islamic countries and however you try and paint it is at conflict with western secular principals.

Indeed. But even 5 minutes of critical thinking would show how ridiculous that is.

I’d draw the link to female genital mutilation, but you can bet there would be some idiot here who would be all ‘omg did you just equate wearing Muslim dress to fgm?? Omg that is disgusting and offensive’ 🙄

Threes a fabulous post by backyard99 on the Boris Johnson thread regarding burkas.

@SlowlyShrinking
there is an expectation/social convention that women wear different kinds of clothes to men, and the clothes women are meant to wear are definitely less comfortable and practical than those men are meant to wear. It’s definitely not enforced anywhere near the way the burka is though!! But I can see why Muslim women living in the west might feel that being completely covered is liberating

What?
What world are you living in? Open any page of a Next women's workwear or casual catalogue, pop into M&S, John Lewis or H&M.
Lots of lovely trousers, tops, jackets, low heel shoes... women can and do wear comfortable clothes.
Yes, some music and popular culture pushes overtly sexual clothes to teen girls (looking at you Little Mix and Kim Kardashian) but go to offices and shops and you'll see women wearing what they want without any pressure or expectations.

@TheHulksPurplePanties
Why? I've worked with many women who wear niqab and they seem perfectly capable. They don't lose their brains when they cover their face.

Where do you work? I work in the cosmopolitan and diverse city of London and I have NEVER seen a woman wearing a niqab in the workplace. Not a school, hospital, shop, restaurant or office.
Communication is important. This garment inhibits communication.
I am quite sure that if I wore one to interviews my friendly, can-do attitude would not come across. I believe that I would be less approachable if I wore one. My earning capacity would diminish and I would be reliant on others for money.

*While it may be a symbol of misogyny now, the act of covering your face/hair/body in loose flowing clothes hasnothing to do with misogyny and eveything to do with the environment it stems from, which is hot and sandy
*
Depends what you're talking about really.

Yes, I think men and women were wearing clothing like this long before Mohammed showed up & Islam was born. It is sensible clothing in deserts, as you say.

But the fact remains that once he did and started being asked asked whether women should cover up his explanations for why they should had nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with hiding themselves from men.

It's notable that he never suggested men should cover up like this, even though they are as subject to desert winds as women are.

I also have to disagree with those saying that there is no religious validity for covering women. Yes, I know that liberal Muslim scholars insist that there isn't (and I am very glad that they do) but it's not strictly true.

There are multiple verses, passages and quotations in the Koran & Sunnah which support the idea of women covering their bodies and hair...and possibly their faces too, although this is less clear. This means that the kind of people who want women covered will be able to point to scripture in support of their standpoint.

And that is a problem that won't be solved by just pretending those passages don't exist.

And, like Stoic says....it's all man made bullshit anyway so there is no final arbiter of "the truth" to consult. None if it is true to begin with.

Women wear burkas because of the sand?

I am quite sure that if I wore one to interviews my friendly, can-do attitude would not come across. I believe that I would be less approachable if I wore one. My earning capacity would diminish and I would be reliant on others for money. That is an excellent point. Keep women dependent on men. Faceless wives and mothers. Women in this country fighting to wear niqab and brave women in Iran fighting to get rid of all coverings. It doesn't make sense.

That is an excellent point. Keep women dependent on men. Faceless wives and mothers. Women in this country fighting to wear niqab and brave women in Iran fighting to get rid of all coverings. It doesn't make sense.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

And you have this weird thread of feminists, defending the practice, saying it's liberating, etc for the women who wear them...

So fucked up.

I live in a very diverse part of London and I have never seen a woman working in a niqab. They are essentially unemployable, outside of some niche roles.

I don’t want to show a lot of flesh or wear tight clothing, and there are lots of absolutely beautiful clothes that flatter my personality and looks available. A burka or niqab is not necessary!

Well it’s necessary for control purposes and to ensure women are kept apart from employment and so opportunity.

Anyone who calls themselves a feminist and supports the wearing is a virtue signalling brainless idiot.

And no feminist

cuppa well in a society where there is still a huge pay gap, women unable to reach the top in most sectors and women accustomed to taking on their husbands name, we can safely say women are not respected in any society. As much as one believes.

tiny think the poster was referring to the fact that men and women in such environments cover their faces. It makes sense with the sandstorms and harsh sun.

banana the verses you refer to I believe are the same ones used by the Jewish sect stating women need to wear the burka/niqab.

Same verses in the Torah I mean

lonely

Yes we are fighting to close the pay gap and publication of such things helps.

I didn’t take my husbands name he took mine. Many women don’t.

I have never felt disrespected in Britain for being a woman and had a very good career by starting my own business.

Perhaps I would have done better in Iran where women are forced to wear this monstrosity and have very little rights.

OP, you’re having an absolute laugh. The two are hardly comparable.

Frankly if your heels hurt then you shouldn’t be wearing a pair of shitty New Look’s finest, but invest in a decent pair suited for you. I wear heels everyday as I like them, and my feet are fine. I work in a professional capacity so can’t wear trainers at work, and I’m short so trainers on me look ‘studenty’ rather than casual- ie I can’t pull them off on weekends either. At least you have the option of what to wear!

When I was in school (21 year old), Muslim girls in my year would get changed in alleyways. As in they would leave their houses in trousers and change into tights&skirts or pe shorts, put makeup on, take their hair out and adjust their shirts/ties. Yes - kids getting undressed and dressed in bloody alleyways!
They didn’t look ‘tarty’ after, just like regular school children, but their families would have been abusive if they left the house looking like a normal pupil. I think that’s more sad than the bullshit in your OP my dear.

Misogyny exists in every culture, but it’s particularly evident in some Asian/Muslim cultures where women are essential just rape/baby/housework machines and nothing more