To think that some types of 'western dress' e.g; high heels are as oppressive as the burka?

[malificent7]

Don't get me wrong; I have worn heels in the past in the dubious hope that they look 'sexy.' I have mostly ended up hobbling along at the end of the evening in pain and fed up, envious of those wearing trainers.
I do realise that women have a 'choice ' to wear garments such as heels, mini skirts and boob tubes but aibu to think that they are not garments of liberation but rather an over sexualised aesthetic imposed by the patriarchy.

I am not a massive fan of the burka and I do think that they have been enforced by the patriarchy for a different reason; to protect the modesty of the woman. I am very against the burka ban and I think Boris Johnson is a prick for his comments.

So both types of dress control women in different ways; the western dress to promote sexuality and the burka to hide it.

In short, women should wear what they want without government enforcement and comments from Boris and his ilk.

And before we talk about seeing women's faces when we talk to them and the obstruction to that that the burka causes; what about a full face of slap that many western girls embrace now?

You could make the argument that Muslim women covering is tied to non-patriarchal/environmental factors, as some have done above, but I think far too many of us have seen women in weather-inappropriate coverings alongside their entirely Westernised husbands in t-shirts and shorts to swallow this whole.

Our nearby high street has no fewer than 6 Eastern supermarkets and a Somalian cafe - I see this day in and day out.

I applaud Boris Johnson's article (though I realise it's for political gain) - I think it's absolutely right for him to say, we support your right to wear a burqua, but many amongst us will find it ridiculous.

It's absolutely true that this reversion to women covering is recent and a source of dismay to older generations, who had successfully all but eliminated it in parts of the now-conservative East/Mid-East. My MIL is part of an enormous expat group from a now-fallen, formerly vibrant Muslim city- they all say it was a great place for women in the 70s.

The high heel comparison doesn't ring true to me.

You could make the argument that Muslim women covering is tied to non-patriarchal/environmental factors, as some have done above, but I think far too many of us have seen women in weather-inappropriate coverings alongside their entirely Westernised husbands in t-shirts and shorts to swallow this whole.

The traditional clothing choices for Middle Eastern women has certainly been co-opted by men and enforced on some women, especially in the last century.

I highlighted the historic nature of the clothes as a re-tort to those who say it's ugly, or purely a creation of men. It is not either of those things.

I also think it's sad that so many people think Western clothes mean freedom. Many cultures have given up their traditional, more practical clothing and traded them for jeans and t-shirts, and that's sad.

For many of the Gulf Arabs I know, wearing their traditional dress is not only symbol of their faith, but a act of defiance against people who think that only Western style clothes are acceptable, and against those that say they are being "forced" to wear hijab, when that's simply not the case.

End of day, women should be able to wear whatever they choose, whether it's a mini skirt or a niqab. Anyone who calls themselves a feminist, but wants to ban the veil, is a hypocrite of the worst kind.

That is ironic given that women in the UK fought hard for women’s rights and still continue to work hard to uphold those rights and freedoms.

No one is talking about banning the burqa as we live in a liberal democracy where you can wander about naked as long as you don’t cause offence.

Adopting the burqa as a form of protest against ‘western dress’ ? Is utterly ridiculous.

Tiny I don't think that you can walk around naked outside your own house. Only in nudist areas.

I think it’s a spectrum, OP, and both of these cultural ‘expectations’ are on it. Just at different points.

Adopting the burqa as a form of protest against ‘western dress’ ? Is utterly ridiculous.

And that attitude is why they do it.

Yes you can - but not if someone complains

What attitude?

But the burqua in SA and some Arab countries is enforced. Even western women working over there are enforced to dress in a certain way.

So for many covering up is enforced not a choice

What attitude?

The attitude that any woman who would choose to wear it is ridiculous. Saying that is generally perceived as a slap in the face to their culture. Women do choose to wear it. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean they don't.

But the burqua in SA and some Arab countries is enforced

The burqa is not enforced in Saudi Arabia. The abaya and hijab (hair covering) is. Iran enforces similar. No government enforces the burqa right now.

TheHulks

I am a feminist and would love to see this medieval ridiculous symbol of the patriarch banned from britsin.

Cuppaorwine Than you're no better than the men who force their wives to wear it.

Than you're no better than the men who force their wives to wear it.

God, this is such a facile argument. Haven’t we progressed beyond the ‘cultural sensitivities’ trope? With friends like you.

TheHulks so you do admit that wives are forced to wear the burka!

God, this is such a facile argument

If anything is facile it's banning it. While it may be a symbol of the patriarchy to you, it has different meanings to the women who choose to wear it. And they should be allowed to wear it if they want to. Who are you to tell a woman what they should or should not wear?

Annabelltutu Yes, where did I not admit that some women are forced to wear it? Many women are also not forced to wear it, but do so out of choice because it's a part of their beliefs/culture.

wearing their traditional dress is not only symbol of their faith but an act of defiance

Yes! And this defiance is exactly what we see when we look at the eyes in those slits and it makes us very, very uncomfortable.

Why come to our country and be defiant and make us uncomfortable?
When they could be in Saudi, or Iran or Egypt?

Why come to our country and be defiant and make us uncomfortable?

Perhaps they were born in "your" country? I think you need to take a good hard look at yourself. Are you often scared of things that you're not used to or people who may think or look different than you?

Not scared! Just passed off!

Pissed

It’s a horrible restrictive outfit and it demeans women. It plays into the good girl/bad girl crap we have fought against with feminism.

There is no place for it in 21st century britsin. Wear it in private but ban it in public

There is no place for it in 21st century britsin

There is no place for it anywhere. You know that the brainwashing is complete when even women are defending it.

It’s not about being scared it’s about our core values of equality between the sexes.

It’s an inherently mysogynistic covering.