to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

I drive because I have multiple children with completely different schedules requiring them to be in different locations at similar times often times with several bags in tow. I would not be able to get them where they need to be if I relied on public transport alone.

I will not give up the freedom which a car allows, and the ability to transport bulky items easily.

I have an electric car and therefore will not allow you to guilt me into conforming to your set ideas on how I must live.

Not the first time I've witnessed OP being a goady shit on a thread

Ah well there you go.

This is a topic that needs to be discussed but it needs proactive campaigns, not telling disabled people they need to get on with it because the OP sees other disabled people on buses etc.

The public transport services outside London are shocking. I live in Greater Manchester, in the evening the buses to my place of work just don’t exist. The trains are useless (or has the OP missed the issue with Northern Trains this summer), the trams grind to a halt regularly and the price of public transport prevents people from using it at all.

If it was well run with regular, on time, inexpensive services then people would flock to use it. If services ran after 6:45pm, people would use it. If services outside city hubs ran in any direction other than to the city or town centres then it would make sense to talk about penalising drivers but non of this infrastructure exists and guilting people who are trying to get on with their lives, in this goady manner is tiresome.

I love your post, OP.

People really don't understand the costs. Even on a personal financial level - people complain about the cost of a hire cat for a holiday - they just don't realise how much car ownership is costing them in terms of depreciation, tyres, servicing, and fuel.

The cost to out society is huge. We have built our cities around cars, which really limits how we use our cities in other ways- makes bike riding difficult and unpleasant, for example.

That said, I understand the being trapped into car ownership thing. We own 2 cars. One day I hope not to.

The Mr money mustache blog has some great thoughts on this topic.

@clairetree how is a 12-16 hour shift a normal days work?? Plus and hour and 15 mind commute isn't that short!!

You're either being deliberately obtuse or really live in a fantasy world

Thank you @carboholic

that is exactly what i am trying to say!

Aw it's a smoking thread from the future

I kind of get what you're saying, some journeys are unnecessary and could be done with walking or public transport but some do need your own car which is fine.

What think needs to happen is a massive national transport programme, that connects together, so a national bus service that runs 24 hours, with nationalised trains running late at night. And good cycle lanes.

We got the bus last week to the next town, 20 mins away. 4 adults and 2 children - £50 return!

Just couldn't decide who to leave behind as we all couldn't fit in my car! Public transport can be very expensive when you live in rural NE Scotland.

@clairetree how is a 12-16 hour shift a normal days work?? Plus and hour and 15 mind commute isn't that short!!

You're either being deliberately obtuse or really live in a fantasy world

no I'm not, to e this is just normal life, I wouldn't consider that a long working day, or a long commute

Personal convenience is a perfectly valid reason to drive

I certainly wouldn't be bloody "rich" if car prices tripled and rose out of my reach because I'd have to give up my job. I live in a small market town so that'd be the end of my contribution to the economy.

And, not that its remotely relevant, but my children are adopted

Not according to another thread @Clairetree1 where you talk about being having induced for a vaginal birth. Timings and everything.

Which one is the lie?

So how are you going to get to Chernobyl, OP?

Sail through the air powered by the shit that's spouting out of your mouth?

of course only rich people own and use cars!

Absolutely ridiculous and deliberetly goady comment.

sorry, don't get this normal days work and relatively short commute? can't see an issue

So a 16 hour shift and 1hr 15 mins is normal? On your feet? Please come and work for the NHS, we are crying out for robots like you.

If I took my son on a bus, he would get distressed and other people would likely get extremely annoyed and upset about his behaviour. That is even if the space for his wheelchair is free.
If ds is not with us we still need to fit in what we do around his needs so the timing may not work.

I would love to go to Chernobyl, it wouldn't occur t me to go any other way other than public transport though, so I really can't see what the point of this comment is!

😂 oh dear. The OP has created this thread purely to look a fool and has succeeded. Chernobyl by public transport indeed. A plane can be considered public transport, think of the fuel that uses.

*If I worked my 12-16 hour shift and then needed to get a 55 min bus + work another 20 minutes I wouldn’t be in for my next shift.

sorry, don't get this normal days work and relatively short commute? can't see an issue*

Really? Simple maths, 16 hr shift, 1 hour fifteen minute commute EACH WAY.... that’s 18 and a half hours out of the home. You do know that there are only 24 hours in a day? Five and a half hours to sleep, eat, shop, interact with family..... well I can see the issue! Even with a 12 hour shift that’s still only 9 and a half hours at home.....

Would wouldn't consider a 16 hour shift a long day?? Do you have more hours in your days than the rest of us?

Personal convenience is a perfectly valid reason to drive

personal convenience that contributes to tens of thousands of premature deaths every year in the UK alone, the destruction of the ecosystem, global warming, and the personal inconvenience of every body else on the road........ no, it really ISN'T valid reason to drive

Not sure why

1. Some posters get so angry about a perfectly reasonable and reasoned POV, and
2. So many cannot seem to separate the very logical "most people" from their own, quite exceptional car-needing circumstances.

Maybe they just want to argue?

The rate of car usage is indefensible, and I say that as someone who drives a lot... shame on me.

I live in London suburbs - blessed with many bus routes near plus trains. I really appreciate what I have because I am from a rural background ( the two years with a market day only bus that went in but didn’t come back out was a low spot of teenage years ) and my DDs really appreciated their free under 18 travel once they lost it ! Gave them amazing independence and self reliance.

I do have a car, use it for heavier shopping and getting to places not easily served by buses out here but I never drive in central London now - slow, Congestion Charge , hard and expensive to park whereas the buses zip along the bus lanes. In my distant youth I used to have my favourite parking spots right in the centre of town and even used to drive to work from South Ken to off Piccadilly, which seems like a fantasy now. Did drive through central London recently at 4am which was almost surreal with the lack of traffic - just us and some cruising Ubers.

We live near two primary schools and I am constantly amazed at the people who try to find parking at school drop off/pick up - they can’t be from far away ( very, very tight catchment areas) and by the time they have found somewhere, it is going to be much nearer to their homes than the school and they would have spent less time if they had walked in the first place !

When I had DC I drove nearly everywhere as it was much more convenient than wrangling them on and off public transport where I may or not have found seats for all of us to sit near each other. Now they have left home I use public transport for 90% of my travel. I only really drive to Costco about once a month and to a yoga class that is nowhere near a bus stop.

That works fine for me as I don’t work very long hours and parking is a nightmare where I work in a shitty area of South London. I am also very fit and am happy to walk the quarter mile or so between stops and stations whenever needed and am able to stand when the bus/train is crowded. I don’t have a tight schedule so delays and cancellations making me late are not an issue. I live in an area with excellent transport links so if one service is cancelled I have other options. I also have a (hidden) disability that doesn't affect my mobility but means I get a discount on trains and tubes making them very good value compared with petrol and parking. I am also confident and used to the area so the occasional fracas on the bus or unsavoury character approaching me in the street does not distress me unduly. I am lazy and find driving hard work and much prefer sitting on the bus reading or people watching. It makes my journeys part of my down time.

All of the above makes travelling on public transport the natural choice for me but for other people I completely understand that the car is better for them for any number of perfectly valid reasons. Horses for courses and all that.

But the OP's opening post still stands - the MAJORITY of car users do not have a GOOD reason not to use public transport,

Are you really saying that the majority of people in the UK have access to good public transport? Really? What planet are you on?

And OP - you refer to a 12-16 hour shift as 'a normal shortish working day'. I say again - really?