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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

999 replies

Clairetree1 · 08/08/2018 09:18

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

OP posts:
MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:33

No, you’re genuinely taking glee in hoping I get forced to line some managers pockets instead of being able to spend that money on something charitable instead. Shame on all of you.

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:33

If enough people did it the companies would be forced to take action to address people’s concerns

They have. All trains on our lines now have mandatory ticket before you travel. If you don’t, you get a £20 on the spot fine. We are getting ticket barriers in all stations.

Oh and prices have gone up to cover this of course...

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:34

No, you’re genuinely taking glee in hoping I get forced to line some managers pockets instead of being able to spend that money on something charitable instead. Shame on all of you

No. I want you to pay for a journey. It’s not rocket science.

I’m loving the way you’re trying to justify it

I pay for train fares AND donate. Go me.

Debfronut · 08/08/2018 20:34

Mr Spock do you live in the 1940's? Some people don't have enough time in their week to heat up a microwave meal. You are clearly judging people based on your own life and need to become a little more aware of other peoples. A lot of us in the day and age have little time to grow veg, volunteer or look in second hand shops let alone have the leisurely lifestyle that means we can spend hours on public transport.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:34

They have. All trains on our lines now have mandatory ticket before you travel. If you don’t, you get a £20 on the spot fine. We are getting ticket barriers in all stations.

Oh and prices have gone up to cover this of course...

The issue is they aren’t taking this out of their margins and are passing it to us. And that’s when complaints, protests, letters to the MP need to kick in.

But people are too lazy to take a stand and so they get away with it!

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:36

But people are too lazy to take a stand and so they get away with it

It’s not lazy to pay for a service you’re using.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:37

Mr Spock do you live in the 1940's? Some people don't have enough time in their week to heat up a microwave meal. You are clearly judging people based on your own life and need to become a little more aware of other peoples. A lot of us in the day and age have little time to grow veg, volunteer or look in second hand shops let alone have the leisurely lifestyle that means we can spend hours on public transport.

No, I wish I did in some regards though! I’d love a hybrid society with today’s tech advances and justice but an older style attitude towards make do and mend and family habits!

We’ve lost something in recent years.

ivykaty44 · 08/08/2018 20:38

Could you at least try and be sensible

What exactly is your agreement against other people using different types of transport?

Or don’t you have anything else but to throw that line, I’m up for s debate but come on

KoolAidPickle · 08/08/2018 20:38

No, you’re genuinely taking glee in hoping I get forced to line some managers pockets instead of being able to spend that money on something charitable instead. Shame on all of you

Giving money that you stole from someone else is not something to be proud of, and the charity would not accept it from you if they knew about it.
You are not a social justice warrior, you are a thieving gimp.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:40

It’s not lazy to pay for a service you’re using.

No but it’s lazy to not complain and voice your concerns. It’s this same argument but on a different issue.

If you have a problem with non violent resistance you probably think one of my friends is Satan. She goes into coffee shops, takes their Daily Mail newspaper sneakily and throws it away. I think it’s brilliant.

to feel car driving is frequently unjustified
PickAChew · 08/08/2018 20:41

When transport companies decide that it's worth increasing capacity on a service, they usually do that based on revenues. A bus can run full, every journey, but if most of the passengers are using concessionary bus passes, then the company won't necessarily be making enough money off that service to be able to justify adding another bus or swapping single deck vehicles for double deck.

Similarly, a train franchise isn't going to consider increasing capacity on, or otherwise upgrading, a service if it's carrying a large number of freeloaders who think they are above paying their fare, since they probably wouldn't even recoup their costs, even if trains appear to be running full.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:41

Giving money that you stole from someone else is not something to be proud of

You’re anti capitalist like me then, yes? As you know profit is stolen from those who actually work.

foxtiger · 08/08/2018 20:41

Lovely post, plumpie. I get that a lot of people will always want to use cars but I still think there's a lot that could be done to make public transport better for those who do want to use it, and if they did that, eventually some of those car drivers would be won over too. Every little helps.

crazycatgal · 08/08/2018 20:42

@MrSpock If you want to 'non-violently resist' train fares then don't use the train. Getting on the train without paying is theft, that makes you a thief not a social justice warrior.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:43

If you want to 'non-violently resist' train fares then don't use the train. Getting on the train without paying is theft, that makes you a thief not a social justice warrior.

You seem to think legality determines morality, when it’s often more about keeping the rich rich.

pointythings · 08/08/2018 20:44

MrSpock let me explain it very simply:

By not paying for your train ticket, i.e. stealing, you are making fares rise for other people. Doesn't harm CEOs in the least, but it harms normal working travellers. So you are actually stealing from them, not from the CEOs. You are stealing from me. When I travel on PT for work, you are in fact stealing from the NHS. Feels good, doesn't it?

IvyKaty I would love to see bike infrastructure the way they have it in my native Holland. But it would cost a fortune. Holland built its infrastructure using Marshall Aid money after WW2. The UK blew its Marshall Aid on trying to cling on to a withering Empire.

PickAChew · 08/08/2018 20:46

the sheer amount of land needed to grow enough crops to support a large number of vegans.

And where do you think the food for all those animals you eat is grown?

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:47

What exactly is your agreement against other people using different types of transport?

Where did you read that?!

I’m asking how your schemes make provision for everyone. Including those for who cars are a necessity.

Not sure I can make it any easier to be honest.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:48

By not paying for your train ticket, i.e. stealing, you are making fares rise for other people. Doesn't harm CEOs in the least, but it harms normal working travellers. So you are actually stealing from them, not from the CEOs. You are stealing from me. When I travel on PT for work, you are in fact stealing from the NHS. Feels good, doesn't it?

Not really. As I said, if everyone protested the increases they’d have to address it but people are too lazy to do so

The issue is society trains good drones who don’t want to question, defy authority or focus on the bigger picture. They train selfishness and greed instead of compassion and caring and the result is selfishness, complacency and little cogs in the machine.

Resist. Complain. Protest. Don’t accept things the way they are.

SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning · 08/08/2018 20:52

Being able to drive (disability aside) is a prerequisite for my job. Lots of workers need cars especially in certain areas; district nurses, social workers and mental health workers etc. My local authority is in an area that is deemed poor for public transport hence a driving license being mandatory. Our crisis response service must be at the individual’s home within 30 minutes. It is not possible on public transport.

BakedBeans47 · 08/08/2018 20:52

Aan entitled privileged few

Hmm you realise there are tens of millions of drivers in the U.K.?

It’s hardly a “few”

Jeanclaudejackety · 08/08/2018 20:56

If you were god forbid injured or ill and needed a district or community nurse to come to you twice a day, to change your dressings or give you an injection or something similar, you'd have to be a very special kind of nob head to call them a lazy middle aged environment destroyer. They'd be in a car because the job is as someone has said, literally impossible on public transport

Original poster
Clairetree1 · 08/08/2018 20:57

Op if you are going to lie at least make sure it all adds up first!

I'm telling you the truth, but its up to you whether you believe it or not, its nothing at all to me, but if you are going to comment on my posts I suggest you check your own reading and adding up.

I'm not going to bother going through my daily schedule again. It is what it is now, in other schools it has been different, sometimes longer working hours, sometimes shorter.

if you are really that fascinated by what time I get up, get on the bus, etc, then read back to my previous posts.

or just leave it, its really totally irrelevant

OP posts:
MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:57

Jeanclaude I don’t think anyone is saying essential workers are lazy.

I’m on about people who take the kids a mile to school and back or five minutes up the road!