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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

999 replies

Clairetree1 · 08/08/2018 09:18

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

OP posts:
plumpie79 · 08/08/2018 20:18

It is possible for all of these things to be true simultaneously

  • Cars are awful for the environment and quality of life and have adverse impacts on lots of health outcomes
-Public transport is generally too expensive, even in London -People drive too many short journeys where they could easily walk -Some people are disabled and have to drive or have jobs where they have to -Everyone subsidises road travel via general taxation -Public transport is not significantly subsidised most of the time

I don't think anyone thinks cars are fab for the planet.

What's needed is proper joined up policy that changes behaviour (better planning for example for more walkable localities) subsidising public transport in a coherent way, and more punitive taxation for non essential car drivers in urban areas.

The mini Hollands in London are a good example- car drivers hate them as they make it more difficult to drive around which is kind of the point and a great behaviour nudge.

It's not massively helpful to anyone to deliberately misunderstand the big picture to support their own entrenched position.

I do think though, car ownership has proliferated. I live in London on zone 3/4 borders. Excellent buses and trains. Not a few families on my street own 2 cars. I grew up very rurally and no one had more than 1 unless they farmed.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:19

There's nothing "radical" about being a thief. I hope you get caught out soon.

Hoping an ordinary person get sick caught for not paying a train fare but not giving a crap about millionaire tax avoiders, ah Tory Britain.

ThinksTwice · 08/08/2018 20:19

Plus good luck finding a bus earlier than 5.30/6 am in most of the country. Even then they start at each end of the bus route so just because it leaves the terminal at 5.30am, if you live middle route it might not get to you for half/three quarters of hour, that's if you even live near a bus route.

plumpie79 · 08/08/2018 20:20

To finish that point- that's because cars are a class/status marker as well as a way to get around.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:21

What's needed is proper joined up policy that changes behaviour (better planning for example for more walkable localities) subsidising public transport in a coherent way, and more punitive taxation for non essential car drivers in urban areas.

To be fair, I agree with this and not of your post. A very sensible comment.

Jeanclaudejackety · 08/08/2018 20:21

Oh jesus your poor kids 😂

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:22

I do grow my own veg, encourage bees, care for wildlife, walk almost everywhere, donate my old clothes to refugee families living locally, give to charity, volunteer for charity and buy either second hand or from independent British retailers and small companies though

Ok so I do all of that bar the walking everywhere as that isn’t possible at the moment.

lettuceWrap · 08/08/2018 20:23

Ivykate- Hmmsemantics.
My car VEHICLE tax is £20 a year. My DH’s is newer than mine and cost £0 year (strangely he still has to go online and pay the £0 every year).

Each car was the lowest emissions car available at the time of purchase but still suitable for the number of people in the family and our location.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:23

Oh jesus your poor kids

Lol why? Because I do charity work and don’t buy consumerist shite? What’s wrong with that? Confused

I understand taking issue with my stance on businesses and profit but what on Earth is wrong with being charitable?!

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:24

Ok so I do all of that bar the walking everywhere as that isn’t possible at the moment.

If it’s genuinely not possible, that’s fine. I’ve said repeatedly my issue is both the reliance on cars and lack of transport options.

If you’re not using it for journeys you could walk, then you’re not being a selfish driver.

KoolAidPickle · 08/08/2018 20:25

Hoping an ordinary person get sick caught for not paying a train fare but not giving a crap about millionaire tax avoiders, ah Tory Britain

The rest of us are quite capable of caring about millionaire tax avoiders AND twatty train far thieves you know? You might want to try more than one thought at once yourself.

KoolAidPickle · 08/08/2018 20:25

Hoping an ordinary person get sick caught for not paying a train fare but not giving a crap about millionaire tax avoiders, ah Tory Britain

The rest of us are quite capable of caring about millionaire tax avoiders AND twatty train fare thieves you know? You might want to try more than one thought at once yourself.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 08/08/2018 20:26

@mrspock families should be limited to one car that's sole use is for outings and collecting parcels???? What world are you living in? How do people get to work?

Jackieyoulooknice · 08/08/2018 20:27

Veganism is worse for the environment?? You clearly know absolutely nothing.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:27

The rest of us are quite capable of caring about millionaire tax avoiders AND twatty train far thieves you know? You might want to try more than one thought at once yourself.

Why do you think it’s wrong to not pay a train ticket but not wrong to charge people extortionate amounts for journeys while also having a NMW that’s below a living wage? Where’s your outrage at that?

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:27

Veganism is worse for the environment?? You clearly know absolutely nothing.

Lol, typical ignorant comment. It’s a myth that veganism is better for the environment due to the sheer amount of land needed to grow enough crops to support a large number of vegans.

ivykaty44 · 08/08/2018 20:28

Jaqueshammer

You said it won’t work for you, now your saying it won’t work for other people

Who are these other people then and why won’t it work for them?

It take it you don’t want people to get on bikes, buses, walk and use the train and leave those that can’t do those things on clearer roads?

You don’t see any benefit to changing public transport, making Cycling infrastructure to encourage Cycling and make it safe enough for child to cycle around towns

NotACleverName · 08/08/2018 20:28

Hoping an ordinary person get sick caught for not paying a train fare but not giving a crap about millionaire tax avoiders, ah Tory Britain.

No, just hoping that a thief gets caught stealing. Look, I'd love to not pay for Metrolink journeys. But I do because I'm not a dick.

And where in my post did I state that I didn't care about millionaire tax avoiders? You might only be capable of one thought at a time, but the rest of us...

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:29

Why do you think it’s wrong to not pay a train ticket but not wrong to charge people extortionate amounts for journeys while also having a NMW that’s below a living wage? Where’s your outrage at that?

And again, two issues. I have the brain capacity to care about both.

Especially as - however much you try and suggest it doesn’t - fare dodgers do the opposite of what you want. They contribute to a rise in fares which then discourages more people from using public transport.

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:29

families should be limited to one car that's sole use is for outings and collecting parcels???? What world are you living in? How do people get to work?

People should endeavour to work locally and carshare.

Not all of this is in the control of you or I, it’s a societal issue. Housing estates in the middle of nowhere doesn’t help. Infrastructure needs to exist, as does accessible services.

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:30

*You said it won’t work for you, now your saying it won’t work for other people

Who are these other people then and why won’t it work for them?*

Well I’m presuming I’m not the only one who isn’t able to ride a bike, but isn’t disabled.

*It take it you don’t want people to get on bikes, buses, walk and use the train and leave those that can’t do those things on clearer roads?

You don’t see any benefit to changing public transport, making Cycling infrastructure to encourage Cycling and make it safe enough for child to cycle around towns*

Could you at least try and be sensible?

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:30

Well I’m a disabled pregnant woman with a dc with SN who does my best to help society, to thanks for wishing ill will on me. I hope you’re really proud of that, and I hope the CEOs personally thank you for being foot soldiers of the status quo!

MrSpock · 08/08/2018 20:31

Especially as - however much you try and suggest it doesn’t - fare dodgers do the opposite of what you want. They contribute to a rise in fares which then discourages more people from using public transport.

If enough people did it the companies would be forced to take action to address people’s concerns.

JacquesHammer · 08/08/2018 20:31

Well I’m a disabled pregnant woman with a dc with SN who does my best to help society, to thanks for wishing ill will on me

It’s hardly wishing ill on you to want to to be subject to the same train fares you’re so keen on others to pay.

middleagedalready · 08/08/2018 20:32

There is also the issue of weather, being baked alive when it is hot, getting cold during winter and standing around getting wet. My car use isn't that green, I think my air travel is probably worse. I can be persuaded to make green choices but these need to be relatively painless, swapping plastic straws for reusable ones for example, you are going to struggle to get me to make a change that is much less convenient, time efficient and comfortable.