to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

My car cost about £3.5k, second hand. It's a Saab so will go on for years. The insurance is about £350 per annum (third party) , and servicing the same, or less, and the car tax is about £300 (using sterling equivalents) as I live abroad.

I will run it for as long as it lasts, which should be about another 10-15 years. She's already 12 years old, and should be good for another 100-150k miles. Dh's car (also a Saab) was just under £2k, and now owes us nothing in terms of the mileage done. Cheaper than a season ticket on public transport.

it all depends where you live and what's available to you locally. Where I currently live in Belgium is great as we have a Carrefour Express open every day of the week, where I can get most things, a Pharmacy, a Fritkot, Pizzeria, bar, two bakers and a vet all within a very short walking distance (spitting distance really). The last two houses in Belgium entailed a 20 minute walk to get to a shop or the bakers, let alone the return trip laden with shopping.

I have lived in many places in the UK, and traveled by public transport absolutely everywhere, in every county in England, Scotland and Wales, I think

I find that very hard to believe.

But there are many rural, semirural or suburban places where the pubic transport is very good indeed, and far superior to London

Ha ha ha ha. Hilarious. As a resident of Leeds, the largest city in Europe without any form of mass transit system, and someone who has also travelled extensively around the UK but obviously not as much as the OP, who has been to every county I simply cannot believe that there are rural areas or even semirural places with a public transport system that is anywhere comparable to London.

My large village has no bus service and although in theory there are trains, it's northern rail so a lot of the time there isn't one.

But there are many rural, semirural or suburban places where the pubic transport is very good indeed, and far superior to London

Name them.

Still waiting...

I would use public transport if it was convenient. And it’s not. And I live in a city so I imagine that people who live in smaller towns and rural areas have even poorer access to transport than I do. It’s really ignorant to claim that public transport all over the country is good enough and that private cars are unnecessary. It’s just not true.

I feel for the people without cars who have no choice because I know that services are frequently late, cancelled without notice or just plain unsafe. My sis doesn’t drive and relies on the bus to get to work. She had a frightening incident whilst getting the bus home not long ago. Since then I’ve been encouraging her to learn to drive because I hate the thought of her alone on the bus in the late evening, now afraid after what happened. That’s not to mention all the times she’s called me in a panic asking me to drive her to work because the bus hasn’t shown up meaning she’ll be late for work.

Banning private cars would only put a massive strain on an already shoddy system.

You wouldn't be able to get a bus where I live before 8am or after 10pm, so it would be impossible for any shift worker to travel by bus.

There are no train stations within 30 miles and if you were wanting to travel by train to the nearest city it would mean driving half an hour in the wrong direction.

For myself to travel to my job (I can not get a job closer as they don't exist) I would need to drive for 20 minutes to the bus station where i would need to be on a bus at 6 am (I begin work at 9 am) I would need to get three buses minimum to be at my place of work at 9.15 am (late).

I have three small children I would need to get them up at 5am to walk them to my mothers house 5 minute walk in the dark!

This is only getting to work the route home is even more complex, I did all the research. As it stands I drive on the motorway and my commute is 45-50 minutes each way. Besides I would not be able to get rid of my car so I would incur twice the cost for not using my car, madness!

I think I'll keep the car.

You would probably define my rural village as having excellent transport links....there's a very regular bus service.
However, that bus only works for you if you work in one nearby city. There's another city which is actually closer but the bus doesn't go in that direction. The bus also doesn't go anywhere near the train station or tram station. Therefore, pretty useless to those people wanting to get to work anywhere except one city served by the buses.

"I think the people who can't see that car ownership is a monumental privilege are very likely to be the ones who feel entitled to take the car less than a mile to the shops....."

That's a very broad generalisation. I walk loads but also use my car when I need to. I still don't think car ownership is the domain of the rich

I don’t drive. I’ve never needed to.

Not everywhere has good public transport though.

I think the people who can't see that car ownership is a monumental privilege are very likely to be the ones who feel entitled to take the car less than a mile to the shops.....

That's a goady sweeping statement and you know it. Many posters on here have pointed out - very reasonably - that given the state of public transport in much of the UK, a car is an essential, not a privilege.

You keep making the comparison with the rest of the world - that's comparing apples and oranges. Economic structures are completely different in the developing world.

I would love to be able to commute by public transport. I already do limit use of my car, walk a lot, use renewable energy via my supplier. We absolutely need to convert to renewables and get on with doing that fast, but you are refusing to address the structural issues concerning public transport in the UK and spouting sweeping generalisations. Your point is valid in one respect, but your way of putting it across is sorely lacking in consideration of context.

I have lived in many places in the UK, and traveled by public transport absolutely everywhere, in every county in England, Scotland and Wales, I think

I find that very hard to believe.

well, I've had a perfectly normal life consisting of a perfectly normal number of moves, and a perfectly normal amount of holidays, so I really don't see why this is unlikely, however believe or don't believe what ever you want, for what ever reason

that given the state of public transport in much of the UK, a car is an essential, not a privilege.

It’s only an essential if you live in the country.

I think the people who can't see that car ownership is a monumental privilege are very likely to be the ones who feel entitled to take the car less than a mile to the shops.....

Not at all. People are trying to tell you that it's not a one size fits all when it comes to the reality of modern life where people often work between multiple places/don't work 9 to 5 and the public transport doesn't cater for this.

It's common for a bus route to only cover one town in one direction. So if you work in another town the other way that bus service is pretty useless to you. Buses also stop at a certain time or don't start early enough or by the time you've done multiple changes it takes too long to get anywhere.

It's not people making excuses it people explaining reality.

Before needing a car, I used to walk nearly 10 miles daily to where I needed to be and back. I don't feel entitled to use a car at all, on principle, but I need it to reduce my commute from my village to a city over 30 miles away for a 7.30 start by at least 2.5 hours. The cost would overall be similar and reliability and practicality much worse.

I live in the Lakes. There are a few buses and nominally the train, but the buses are for tourists and the train would give me a 2.5 hour commute to work, one way. Driving takes me 45 minutes. I share with others. No brained!

Brainer not brained!

That's a goady sweeping statement and you know it. Many posters on here have pointed out - very reasonably - that given the state of public transport in much of the UK, a car is an essential, not a privilege

its not a goady sweeping statement at all, lots of people can't afford cars, lots of people can't drive. You can't say a car is an "essential" when it is beyond the reach of many people, it clearly can't be "essential" for the people that can't afford it, can it

After having driven for years and had my own and company cars, we took the decision 5 years ago not to have a car. And yes we could afford (a very nice) one if we wanted, so it's not about the cost, though we definitely spent significantly less than we used to.

We now use a mixture of walking, buses, trains, car club and rental for longer periods.

I fully recognise that not everyone can live without a car, people need one for work etc, and that we are fortunate to live near public transport and be physically able. However for many people - and I used to be one of them - getting into a car to nip round to the shops, drop the kids, see a friend is a habit. It's a mindset which changes when you don't have a car, and you have to think twice about whether you really need to drive or if there are other options.
One of the things that changed our car mindset was living in Holland for 10 years where 75% short journeys are done by bike. People also love their cars like we do, and use them to get to work, drive to the countryside etc. but generally leave them at home for weekends and afterwork trips, nipping to the shops or the doctors. That's very different here.
Of course the infrastructure in the UK isn't set up for this, it's hillier here, and cycling to the shops is not our culture. But personally this changed the way I thought about my car, and about how I can choose to live.
I would like to see more incentives for car clubs, walking and cycling, and disincentives to driving into cities. It's better for everyone.

I’ll probably get flamed for this but I think cars are the biggest drivers of the obesity epidemic. People driving 5 minute journeys and getting lazy relying on cars.

But there are many rural, semirural or suburban places where the pubic transport is very good indeed, and far superior to London

Come on, OP. You were challenged on this 25 minutes ago and others have challenged you since. You need to back that statement up.

I work shifts when transport doesn't run
I keep my horse 25 miles away and it's a motorway drive

I have 4 kids. Also a nurse. Dam right I drive when ever I can. Sometimes take the kids on a bus or train, but more for the craic than necessity. I'm perfectly fine with being 'privileged'. Literally wouldn't cross my mind when loading 4 kids into the car that maybe I should think of the environment and get a bus. I'll think of an easy life and my sanity first.
Btw op who minds these dc when you are out slaving away 16hrs a day, 5 days a week as a single parent?

It is essential for some people to provide them with a reasonable quality of life.

Oh I also forgot my care work! Can't do that without a car

'But there are many rural, semirural or suburban places where the pubic transport is very good indeed, and far superior to London'.

Really? Name them.