to feel car driving is frequently unjustified

[Clairetree1]

Having sat in a traffic jam yesterday, in which I counted 10 buses being held up by around 45 cars, many of which only had one person in.

So say 60 people in cars holding up 600 people in buses....

just as a snapshot, throughout the whole journey, each person in a car seems to hold up 10 people in a bus, and if the cars were not there, those car travelers could easily fit on the buses, and everyone would be moving at least 3x as fast,

and I can't really see how this is allowed, or can be justified.

If you are in a city, or in another area with an adequate bus route, and are physically able to use the bus, how do you justify to yourself the danger, inconvenience and lethal pollution you subject everyone else to? Not to mention the further damage to the environment caused by concreting over parking spaces, car manufacture, etc.

I know some people are going to say they need the time, but if cars were banned from our cities and more people on public transport, everyone would be moving faster.

I know some people are going to say they are disabled, or have too much to carry, but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you.

I know some people are just going to say they have a right to, but really, do you? Pollution is killing thousands of people a year in the UK, not to mention those killed in car crashes, the environmental damage done including global warming, and the sheer inconvenience to everybody else.

I know a couple of cities are planning on banning private cars, and I know petrol cars are on their way out, so things might well improve, but I just don't understand how we reached this position in the first place, so much death and destruction and time taken away by an entitled privileged few with such a selfish habit I can't understand how they justify to themselves.

I don't expect many people to agree with me, I think this privilege is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people genuinely feel they have a right to drive cars, when perfectly adequate public transport exist.

I don't think there is any moral right at all though, I think it is morally wrong in every way

Oh come on op, you can't possibly make such a blanket statement about all transport systems throughout the country.

But there are many rural, semirural or suburban places where the pubic transport is very good indeed, and far superior to London

Name them.

Doubling or tripling fuel costs would cripple workers in rural areas - often some of the lowest paid people around.

I'd like to see ds on a bus with his machete and chainsaw.

I don't need to justify my car use to you or anyone else, is the relevant point here.

You aren't just talking about unnecessary journeys though, you have commented that shift workers should get public transport.

shift workers can and do use public transport. I've been a shift worker, and used public transport.

Using a car might be a sensible option if your shift times and locations puts you at risk as i have said, but simply being a shift worker on its own doesn't mean every car journey you make is necessary

Oh come on op, you can't possibly make such a blanket statement about all transport systems throughout the country.

what blanket statement?

Those shift workers are very unlikely to be using public transport because they enjoy it and have left the car at home.

I agree. I rarely use the car around town and walk or cycle instead. It's actually much quicker on the bike than in the car as I am basically marooned by miles of traffic jams come rush hour.

A lot of people are very lazy.

There's lots of justification on here for driving rather than walking & some of it is entirely valid, but I have to say in recent weeks the following has pissed me off.

1. School mum complaining about how difficult it is to park by the School, but refusing to do the 10 min walk from her house as "I don't have enough time after blow drying my hair in the morning" 🤔 She's a SAHM to school age children so not rushing off to work or anything.

1. Another mum who is worried about the high bmi of her children, yet drives the 15 min walk to school & drives the 20min walk her DC's after school activity that she enrolled them in to help them get fitter, then complained about the cost of the after school activity that probably only burns 100 calories once a week anyway.

1. The mum that moaned that " you can eat anything you want, when I just have to look at cake and I gains lbs" yet also admits she walks approx 2k steps a day, when I walk 10-15k. Again she's a SAHM to school age kids so could walk more if she wanted.

Walking is easy, healthy & free. Obviously some people can't physically walk, but there are also a lot of people who drive when they really don't have to.

The blanket statement about rural transport. You aren't an expert.

@Nicknacky My station is in walking distance and although I can choose my own hours, I tend to finish anywhere from 3am. I drive there and back as it's safer. Not to mention that we're knackered by that time and you just want to get home and wind down before getting into bed.

Some people don't 'get' that others work unsociable hours.

"but some people who are disabled or have a lot to carry do use buses, they often have no choice! it doesn't automatically preclude you."

Because all disabled people have exactly the same needs of course.
Next time you are on a bus you can take my teenager with you. You can do the restraining and be the one he headbutts and bites.

I often think that cars are wasted. Most of them spend 95% of the time on a driveway or car park. I wish there was a viable way of sharing cars so fewer cars get used more often

I agree with this, this would be so much better than however many millions of cars we have in the UK requiring however many millions of parking spaces in the environment, to spend most of their time just parked.

Car pool cars and more shared taxis may be another way forward

Are all shift workers who have cars rich, then, OP? Care workers, nurses, factory workers... This thread feels like the discussions I used to have with toddler DS. Largely devoid of logic and with a generous dash of strange stubbornness.

OP I didn’t say in my post that it’s rural Scotland that I live and the buses run sporadically and finish at 6pm at night and they are continually taking more routes off and cutting more of the services, very limited buses on a Sunday etc. Where are these rural places with amazing PT?

My area has one bus an hour between 9am and 3pm then that's it. Monday to Friday only. The nearest town is a 40 minute walk but there are no street lights. So if you finish after 3 in the winter you could get a bus to town (providing you work within that town because the bus only travels around that town and not any others) and walk 40 minutes home in pitch black. Sounds appealing

Op the point of your thread is good; we should cut down on unnecessary car journeys but everything else is either ludicrous or ignorant.

Well, all I know is that based on timetables for public transport, my daily commute to work would be 4 times as long as it currently is by car. That's how good public transport is here. BTW my market town doesn't even have a train station. Until we have major, major investment in public transport which puts it on a par with countries like Holland, nothing will change here.

I'm nearly 40 years old and I can count on one hand the number of bus trips I've taken.

They never go where you want to go and are slow and unreliable (where I live anyway).

In terms of the train. We used to have a relatively good train service and I could get into the city within 30-40 mins with a train every 30 mins. Now we are lucky if a train turns up and if it does you have no idea how long it will take or whether it will take you to where you want to go.

I'm a single mum and also having caring responsibilities for a disabled relative. My current commute to work is 30-60 mins. If I went public transport it would be at least 2 hours and I couldn't get childcare to cover this. I can also jump in my car and get back in an emergency (which I've done many times).

I also use my car for days out, holidays etc. This may make me selfish in your eyes, however this is the choice I make for my son and I.

Having said that, I do walk when its practical to do so (for example when not at work I'd always walk my DS to school, rather than drive).

The blanket statement about rural transport. You aren't an expert.

what blanket statement?

Agree ! And cycle most of the time
But I live in a city

Shift worker here. Public transport doesn’t time with my shifts at all. It’s also a 45min drive or 2.5h journey on public transport (at a cost of £20+ a day). Even if train and bus times did coincide with my shifts I would still drive - Sometimes if I get stuck at work due to a call it can be 3/4am when I leave and there is no night services here whatsoever. What would you suggest I do between 3am and 7.30 when the buses start?

I think the people who can't see that car ownership is a monumental privilege are very likely to be the ones who feel entitled to take the car less than a mile to the shops.....

thechippen That is another valid reason. Personally I want home asap after work and fucking about with public transport isn't gonna happen.

Car pool and taxis could work for those who all work in a the same office etc but again wouldn’t work for people like me or other health care workers who work different shifts etc. Also I personally don’t like sharing my car with anyone other than family or friends

But there are many rural, semirural or suburban places where the pubic transport is very good indeed, and far superior to London

name even one rural area that has public transport far superior to London. Just one.