To think Boris Johnson should be be thrown out of Tory party?

[crunchymint]

He is clearly racist. He should be thrown out of the Conservative party.

Yes we do have laws ghosto and as I assume heard Cressida Dick say none have been broken why are you asking for Boris to be kicked out of the party or even apologise.

He is fully entitled to express an opinion. Whether you disagree with it doesn’t matter.

I can’t stand the man. But my god he’s clever and knows how to manipulate.

Works both ways. Wasn’t long ago a man was jailed for driving a van into a mosque. Muslims suffer verbal abuse in the street. I’m not sure how Johnson’s “jokes” help debate but there you go

Ghost

The jokes he made weren’t racist or sexist. He was drawing attention to the absurdity of a certain type of dress. If an extreme Christian sect started teaching that all men should wear bags over their heads to bring them closer to god, I would expect to be free to laugh at the absurdity of that, too. The enlightenment would never have been able to happen if writers had been stopped from exposing the absurdities and oppressive side of religion. This is why we are free and people in many other countries are not. The freedom to be offensive is important because taking offence is completely subjective.

Johnson has form way before this week as I have previously pointed out. He may not have broken the law but I expect more from politicians than “jokes” and dog whistles that pander to the far right.

It would have been viewed differently in most work places. Imagine a group of workers “joking” to a Muslim colleague about their attire. Just banter?

Imagine a group of male workers “joking” about the size of a female colleagues chest. Just banter?

Johnson is a highly paid public servant not some low brow comedian.

Johnson was taking the piss out of women who wear burkhas. It was not a reasoned discussion about the misogyny behind it. And Johnson is not a feminist campaigner.
He said it as aright wing racist statement to appeal to a certain kind of person.

Ghost

His jokes were political, intended to create a response, to highlight an issue that worries many if us. Yes he is seeking attention and headlines, too. Doesn’t matter. I will defend his right to poke fun at religion and most certainly his right to poke fun at a certain type of dress that forces women to disappear. The prospect of discipling him for commenting on religious (and absurdly oppressive) dress gives me chills.

Those who oppose discussion or humour on this topic should perhaps spend some time in a place where criticism of religion is banned. That may change perspectives.

And poking fun at religion is fine. But he didn't do this. He poked fun at women. He didn't poke fun at Islam or even at Imans, but at the most powerless group.

Complain about gender pay gap, rape, abortion rights in NI and get told "what are you whingeing about, women in the UK are the amongst the most free and privileged in the world - think of FGM, burqas, forced marriages... stop being such a snowflake feminazi"

Raise concern about cultural practices in the UK such as the wearing of the burqa, FGM, forced marriages and get told "what about the DUP? What about Christians? Get your own house in order you Islamaphobe"!

The far right and their ideology is political it doesn’t make them unaccountable. Fascism is political it doesn’t stop us calling that out.

He could have made his comments without resorting to “jokes”. The political element of his comments were to a certain group of people not to address women’s rights.

crunchymint

Of course he did no one disputes that.

But everyone has the right to comment and criticise religions customs and practises. I find the burka a ridiculous mysogynistic and loathsome dress and I am quite entitled to say that.

yes jokes and ‘banter’ can be offensive and people have redress by law to be protected at work etc from such things.

I find some jokes by Frankie Boyle very offensive but certainly don’t think he should be banned.

He poked fun at women

He poked fun at a group of women who choose to wander around with only their eyeballs on show because they are women.

Crunchy

His motive is irrelevant. What matters is what was written. Do we ban jokes about certain types of clothes? Absolutely not and especially given this type of clothing is enforced in some circles, itself has political undertones and sends a message about women’s participation in society. Historically we all owe a lot to satirical writing- it had an enormous role to play in granting the freedoms we all have today. And yes- the church was outraged and offended at the time.

My sense here is that a lot of people detest Boris (I totally get that) and this has given them an excuse to call for him to be sacked.

the far right and their ideology is political it doesn’t stop them being accountable

Just like the far left and your mate Jeremy.

He’s a bit quiet about all this isn’t he? Not a leg to stand on after the anti semitism row still rumbling in the Labour Party.

The strangest thing in all this is most people think Boris has said ban the burka when he said the opposite. Heard loads on the radio today saying ‘yes I agree with Boris it should be banned’

Incredible

I don’t think comparing a burqa to a letter box was, in anyway, trying to highlight the issue of suppression/women’s rights etc within religious societies.

If it was, he would have expressed it differently - because he’s not an idiot.

This was pure racism, done in such a way as to make it easy to put his hands up or be defended as a joke or free speech.

His motives are not irrelevant. Johnson was using inflammatory language at time when religious tensions are already high. This was not about feminism it was political point scoring.

this was pure racism

No it wasn’t. Unless of course you know better than the chief constable of the met?

Cuppa, I thought everything fell under freedom of speech? Have some consistency.

No Ghosto it’s about him starting his campaign to become the next PM God help us.

What are you on about Ghosto

everything fell under freedom of speech

Explain

Believeitornot

How is it racism? He was not denigrating any race.

And you would be wrong, I am firmly centre left. When you personally try and place yourself into the victim narrative with making comments about hoodies and scarves, then the term woke perfectly sums you up

I am NOT white so when I wore a black hooded scarf I was singled out, enough to be uncomfortable because many people associate women of colour who cover up their heads with Islam. It made me realise how hard it is for actual Muslim women.

And the cancer example was true here is an example:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cancer-sufferer-branded-f-muslim-8522081

This is the last time I will respond to your ad hominem attacks.

Ghost

His motives are not relevant to whether action should be taken. What matters is what he said.

Life for Muslim women is hard.

Totally agree. It must be unbearable to be shrouded in black and have your face covered so seeing eating and talking are hard and with the recent hot weather I honestly think they must have suffered immensely.