To think Boris Johnson should be be thrown out of Tory party?

[crunchymint]

He is clearly racist. He should be thrown out of the Conservative party.

miralis

I could have written your post. My journey as a feminist too. Many will disagree though.

I’m not keen on coverings but at the same time don’t like the idea of enforcing rules for clothing.

I understand not wanting to show that the UK accepts this type of thing, but I worry about women staying indoors and avoiding going out. I care about what happens to these women and don’t want to create a situation that’s actually worse by driving it out of sight. Then we can conveniently forget about it, but it may still be an issue.

Although, I imagine many will feel it’s not their issue and no longer bothering them if it’s out of sight.

Still on the fence and need to think about it more.

I’m not sure if I’m in the “it’s racist” crowd, but I know I always state when I think things are racist.

I apologise if you think I was putting you into that bracket, I wasn't, but the I always state when I think things are racist has been used liberally for the past couple of decades, it is not controversial to say this. If we ignore the many, many articles from left leaning sources pointing out how some introspection is needed in this regard, we have had people using slippery slope terms such as potentially islamophobic and coded racism in this thread.

The I think is were we are currently having issues worldwide, but semantics is outside of this conversation.

Both sides seem to be trying to say that the other side is silencing them, I just see it as people stating their opinions and other people disagreeing.

I'm not agreeing with you there, if you look at this thread there is only one side which is on the side of silencing opinions, even if its by some broad brush guilt by association

He did make some good points in his article, but he specifically chose to use those terms in order to create this situation. He doesn’t even want a ban, and yet people that want a ban are saying they agree with everything he said.

I think you are agreeing with me on some level, he would not have gained attention in our current media cycle without irritating the potentially outraged, again that's another another discussion of clickbait media etc etc, however you still again try and play guilt by association. Stormfront actually backed Corbyn in the last election and Duke recently. At some point you have to tackle the underlying issues.

I think it’s possible to both attack the man and his Bannon-esque tactics and also at the same time have a meaningful discussion about the issue.

And yet no one has done this on the thread, no one has yet to rebut the Imam from the times, nor the article @ScaryTeacher posted, the discussion has been continually steered into some "enabling the far right" and not having a meaningful discussion at all

And one persons hate speech is another’s free speech!

I think that depends on the power of the speaker, Joe Bloggs in the pub spouting off, doubt his words will have any power or reach, Boris well thats a 1 hell of a different platform

Is it legal to drive in a Burqa? just out of interest as I have never seen anyone driving around in one

Probably not an issue since the kind of women who wear them aren't allowed to go anywhere without a suitable male chaperone anyway.

I think that depends on the power of the speaker, Joe Bloggs in the pub spouting off, doubt his words will have any power or reach, Boris well thats a 1 hell of a different platform

Whilst that is undoubtedly true, the term hate speech has been watered down somewhat. If you understand he is playing the populist tactic then the reason he is using it is not because of some secret far right cabal waiting in the wings...

JustAnotherPoster

Yes but you couldn’t have one law for one person and another for anyone else.

downthestrsda

I acceit your points but if suddenly all these women who say they choose to wear the burka were suddenly not about in public on the School run or jobs I think questions would be asked.

You can’t condone mysogynistic practises on a large scale incase it offends men who then lock away their wives and daughters.

We as a society need to be more robust regarding UK women’s rights not pandering to a cultural norm which has not even a religious basis.

It’s not right. It’s just condoning mysogyny.

Yes but you couldn’t have one law for one person and another for anyone else

One would assume that someone who has successfully inserted themselves into a position of power would understand his moral obligations though no?

One would assume that someone who has successfully inserted themselves into a position of power would understand his moral obligations though no?

Depends on how you stand by your statement depending on your political allegiances.

I'm almost positive that you would look at semantics if it were the discussion were to be anti semitism, an inconvenient fact is that some bullshit poll at 90% think Bojo shouldn't apologise, and a somewhat more respective poll puts you in the minority of 40% that don't want to ban the burka

I agree cuppa

I think it would be a generational thing, in fact I’m sure of it. When the first wave of Muslim immigrants came over they were liberated and happy with their new found freedom but the second and third generation that never felt the true oppression have taken a more conservative approach and have now gone full circle.

I feel there would be protest over it but at least their daughters and their daughters daughters would be able to feel the sun on their faces and be confident that females have every right to show their faces just as their men do with out opposition or predudice from there families

*their families

I'm almost positive that you would look at semantics if it were the discussion were to be anti semitism, an inconvenient fact is that some bullshit poll at 90% think Bojo shouldn't apologise, and a somewhat more respective poll puts you in the minority of 40% that don't want to ban the burka

Certain, but not right.

I think the Labour Party failing to deal with anti Semitism is as bad.

I think the Labour Party failing to deal with anti Semitism is as bad.

It is, and if we are to put on our extremest hats on with regards to anti semitism in labour and then use the same metrics to see that Warsi is trying to effectively implement soft blasphemy laws via conservatives.

How is Boris as racist per the op?

I care about what happens to these women and girls, of course I do. The girls have to go to school (or prove they are having adequate education at home and have involvement from the LA). That would mean that up to the age of 18 when they cannot cover themselves and must interact with other girls who will never cover themselves and at least have some semblance of opportunity to question and consider.

Post 18 - I'm wondering how many people are working or socialising with women in full flesh covering? We know that in our society the idea that females should cover their faces simply because they are female is abhorrent. Why are we tolerating girls in our society being made to do this and women choosing to do it on the off-chance that the tiny, tiny minority of women who are being forced to do it against "their choice" might have a better life? You can still go to the shop, walk down the street etc. How different would their lives actually be?

It's not right. We know it's not right. The idea that you should not be able to show anything but your eyeballs in public because you are female is just not something we should continue to along with.

And one persons hate speech is another’s free speech!

I think that depends on the power of the speaker

Isn't that another slippery slope though? I'd hope for those "in power" to express their views in a measured manner and avoid downright rudeness - which is largely why I detest Boris - but it seems to me to go too far to suggest they shouldn't share them at all

Quite apart from anything else, at least their speaking out helps us to identify the really dangerous types, which may in the end be better than them remaining hidden

For those who wondered why I thought wearing symbols of Islam was brave it's because of the number of attacks, women have been targeted far more than men precisely because they can be singled out by what they are wearing, and yes this is recent and yes it's still happening. I have a number of hoodie/wrap scarves that I never wear now as they look too much like a headscarf, and if you think that's paranoid, women wearing headscarves because of cancer have been attacked by people who thought they were Muslim women!

Of the victims six out of 10 were women and of the perpetrators eight out of 10 were men, with the majority aged between 13 and 18

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/20/record-number-anti-muslim-attacks-reported-uk-2017

I can tell you one thing though!

It’s women that will get the back lash of all this as usual. Whatever happens it’s aiways the women and girls who suffer.

That’s why you don’t see men in burkas or men in mini skirts or men doing anything that restricts men.

Self ID to a man anyone?

For those who wondered why I thought wearing symbols of Islam was brave it's because of the number of attacks, women have been targeted far more than men precisely because they can be singled out by what they are wearing, and yes this is recent and yes it's still happening. I have a number of hoodie/wrap scarves that I never wear now as they look too much like a headscarf, and if you think that's paranoid, women wearing headscarves because of cancer have been attacked by people who thought they were Muslim women!

Your type of comment is becoming a meme, I know you think your woke and fighting the good fight, but it's not only condensing but trying to perpetuate anecdotal data as systematic and is part of the issue. Picking out one far out racist as being systematic and not countering it with any balance shows your not treating this in good faith.

Linkinging to laughable publications such as vox and try and invent a term of coded racism diminishes your appeal to authority.

Quite right lurker

You don’t wear a scalf?? For goodness sake. I have a sister like you. Soooo woke

I'm not agreeing with you there, if you look at this thread there is only one side which is on the side of silencing opinions, even if its by some broad brush guilt by association

I disagree. You have several posters who seem to think any criticism of Johnson is an erosion of free speech- one even thinks free speech in the U.K. is on a par with Zimbabwe.

Why would champions of free speech get so upset about Johnson being called a twat? I don’t get it.

claiming anyone who thinks Johnson’s comments were out of order is a gerbola eater or sending postcards from another planet is quite an odd way to conduct a debate too- I dunno what kind of tactic it is, but it comes across quite stupid (am I not allowed to say that?!)

Of course Boris is a twat! He was a dreadful foreign sec the worst in living memory

Of he wasn’t allowed to make those comments we’d not necessarily know quite how big a test he is.

Never heard him whinge about nuns.

Surely that not a controversial view?

Test = twat