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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not want to have homeless people with complex needs placed in the house next door to me?

460 replies

StressedandNameChanged · 05/08/2018 23:57

I live in a 2 storey terraced house in a small residential street in an area with lots of rows of similar small terraced houses. It’s not the smartest area of town and hasn’t had the best reputation, but it was affordable when we moved here over 15 years ago, and we have been happy here. I live with my dh, and my youngest ds 12.

The end terrace house next door to me was bought by a private investment company earlier this year, and I recently found out that this was part of an organisation which combines property investment with supported housing. Following a lot of enquiries on my part, I found out that they planned to use the house as a house share for 5 vulnerable adults with complex needs and a history of homelessness. Complex needs means at least 2 of the following issues: substance misuse; history of offending; history of anti-social behaviour; mental health problems.

Communications with the organisations who will be managing the property have been problematic. They were initially very evasive, but once I had more info, the housing manager agreed to come to a residents’ association meeting to discuss the plans for the property. It didn’t go very well. On the agenda at the same meeting were problems with an existing supported housing project in the neighbourhood, where due to staffing issues and some challenging clients, the police are being called out every night.

The housing manager later offered to come and speak with dh and myself but as we were away at the time, we said we would arrange a date when we got back. Unfortunately, while we were away a neighbour put up some very offensive signs around the property, including some in my garden and went to the local paper. (This may be the same neighbour who has also been cutting cctv cables at the property). Since we got back we have tried to get in touch but no response. There is a meeting set up with the neighbourhood policing team and others, but the housing managers are not available to attend that either.

Meanwhile I have heard from elsewhere that at least one tenant would be moving into the property in 2 weeks’ time. I think the company running the property are trying to get it as a done deal with people living there before talking to anyone.

I know people can change and this is hopefully a good opportunity for the people who will be placed next door, but I also know there is no magic wand for people who have struggled with multiple serious issues for several years, and there will be relapses. I am worried about the location and the suitability of the property for this use. Most people who have suffered high levels of trauma and are trying to move away from a chaotic lifestyle want their own place where they can control their surroundings, not a shared house. I am worried about 5 vulnerable adults being housed together in a small Victorian terraced house with poor sound proofing. Many houses around here are used for student housing and they live 5 to a house, but they are groups of friends who choose to live together, and they can usually escape to their parents’ homes for a break. I know from experience the level of disruption just one tenant in a shared house can cause if they kick off, mainly to the other tenants but also to the neighbours. I am worried about some of the visitors they will attract. I am worried about the possible high turnover of tenants. I am worried about the potential disturbance for ourselves and other neighbours. I know what the streets around other hostels are like, and I will not feel safe if my street becomes like that. I am worried about the failure of the people managing the property to communicate, which doesn’t bode well if problems do occur. I am stressed out and losing sleep worrying about it.

Yes, I know I am being the very definition of a NIMBY, but I am amazed that this sort of facility can be placed in a residential street without any consultation with neighbours, the local authorities, the police or any existing services in the area.

OP posts:
loveka · 06/08/2018 07:45

I sympathise totally. It is the lack of staff and house rules being enforced that will cause a problem, if there is one. But of course there is nothing wrong with being concerned.

We have a similar house very close by. It is in one of the most expensive area of our small town. All the other houses are young families, or older couples or singles. Exclusively middle class etc etc Very high housinf prices. I say this for context.

The house (half way house) is the only house where, at various points (different residents as they move out after 6 months) where there is music blarring out at top volume. The only house with people shouting, swearing and fighting in the garden. The only house where the police are called every single day to break up fights etc.

We had a resident who was incredibly violent, I had to call the police as he was beating up a woman in front of my house so badly I thought he would kill her. On Christmas Day we again called the police as he was smashing her head against the wall. This could be heard in all 12 surrounding houses as he bellowed that she was a cunt.

Now I know domestic violence could happen in any of the other houses surrounding that house. As could fightting and loud music.But it is the case that any problems come from that particular house.

Sometimes there are residents who are very quiet, you wouldn't know it was anything other than a house like all the others. This is the case currently.

It is such a difficult one. The aim is to integrate people with difficult lives back into society and I fully support that. It is just not very nice having to put up with anti social behaviour, no matter where your sympathies lie.

There needs to be better control. But the funding is probably very tight.

I wish I knew what the answer is. I am.pretty sure all the snippy answes you have had would not choose to have it next door to them.

GeorgeIII · 06/08/2018 07:45

They don't need to be next door to someone. They can easily be detached bungalows which is what many are round this area. With double glazing most are unaware they are even there.

OldBean2 · 06/08/2018 07:48

I am really struggling with this thread. You can have rotten neighbours who move in with no warning about who they are, it is pot luck; that this is sheltered accommodation should matter not a jot and I am saddened that it does.

My Godson, has just turned 18, technically he is labelled with complex needs as he does not speak and is autistic. He will require support all of his life, I hope he does not have to live in your friendly little corner of town.

Lepetitpiggy · 06/08/2018 07:51

I work in a controlled drinking house in a residential street - got to get ready to go in now, but will be back later to talk more if needed!

Kokeshi123 · 06/08/2018 07:52

This thread is frightening and disturbing, particularly the fact that MNHQ have allowed it to stay on.

Why shouldn't MNHQ "allow" it to stay on? It's a complex issue and the OP sounds like a decent person who is aware of the fact that people with complex needs have to live somewhere but is also expressing some reasonable worries about the impact this could have on the neighborhood.

Shutting down discussion about this kind of issue does not make these worries and concerns disappear.

CanineEnigma · 06/08/2018 07:54

Fuck that, I’d be putting the house on the market and hoping for a quick sale.

StepBackNow · 06/08/2018 07:57

YANBU.

It sounds as though the house is totally unsuitable for what is planned. Fight it all the way. You will never sell your house once this happens, who here would buy it? It's all very well people calling you names but I'm betting they wouldn't buy your house. Ignore them, they have no idea.

If it does happen phone the police every single time there is disruption. That happened in the village where my SiL lived. It cause chaos, the residents were not properly supervised and it ruined people's quality of life for the year it took to get it closed down.

We have a family member who lives in supervised housing. He can be noisy but the house is detached with just 4 residents and plenty of supervision. In those circumstances no one would have any objection.

PeakPants · 06/08/2018 07:58

It's awful but I agree that nobody who is criticising the OP would be happy with this arrangement if it was their next door neighbour. It would also financially impact on the value of the house. I am not sure what the answer is, but it's unfair to put five people who have a history of substance abuse and often very serious offending right next door to someone who has no say in it. These schemes do not work miracles and often the people reoffend and get back on drugs. If it were staffed, it would be better but clearly they will just be left to it.

rosylea · 06/08/2018 07:58

Maybe we should put all the mentally ill and people with complex needs on an island, then we wouldn't even need double glazing to be unaware they are even there? Or maybe just threaten to shoot them as pp's neighbour did in the US? Problem solved!!

RB68 · 06/08/2018 07:59

The issue we should be discussing is the lack of support and disjointed care for people with these issues.

Putting them in 2 up 2 down terraces - up to five people a) where will the support be? and b) this is a small space with lots of people and very close to neighbours by the nature of terraces.

These people may be vulnerable but they are not harmless as a result and others around them have as much right to protection as they have to support out of homelessness. The needs of each don't out trump the other and there needs to be balance and not just a rub of "well they are vulnerable, you need to be inclusive" It is not Ops responsibility to support them - what she is concerned about is the lack of support to make the idea work

FurryDice · 06/08/2018 07:59

Give them a chance. Get a diary. Any problems record them in the diary

This. Well said. Give them a chance and get a diary. How much fairer could you be?

Lovelydovey · 06/08/2018 08:01

The complex needs in this case can be very anti-social - while all may be ok, I’d want to understand what support they were being given, what the house rules were and have a contact number, in case it isn’t all plain sailing.

And being brutally honest, I’d probably try and move now.

PeakPants · 06/08/2018 08:01

Rosylea we are talking about people who often pose a serious threat to those around them here. Many people in prison have MH conditions but that doesn't mean they aren't dangerous or anti-social. I believe people deserve a second chance, but this arrangement sounds unsuitable because there will be nobody there to oversee it from the charity and the house sounds like it will be overcrowded.

Pengggwn · 06/08/2018 08:01

People are really giving the OP an unnecessary bashing here. I doubt anybody here actively wants to live next door to five undersupported adults with complex mental needs, possibly drug and alcohol addiction problems and (again possible) criminal histories. Come on.

Yes, they need to live somewhere, but this looks like cheap outsourcing of rehabilitation facilities to me.

Imsorrylhaventaclue · 06/08/2018 08:02

The virtue signaling by some posters on this thread is unbelievable.

OP, I think you’re being more than reasonable - I would be concerned that there wasn’t going to be the support in place if addicts had a relapse. Many (many) years ago I lived in a flat with 2 crack/smack addicts upstairs and an ex-con (assault) downstairs. It was awful - downstairs would blast music all day, and upstairs would take over for the night shift. Upstairs were always perfectly pleasant to me, but frequently sounded like they were going to kill each other having fights at night, and it wasn’t unusual to have to step over one of their mates slumped on the step to get into or out of the house. I called the police on them repeatedly. Speaking to downstairs to ask them to turn the music down meant getting threatened. Now, I’m sure that next door to you won’t be anything like this, but I’d want to be 100% crystal clear what the process was for identifying and dealing with these problems because, IMO, if I had a child living in this flat with me at the time it would have been itself a safeguarding issue.

And that’s all your saying, right? Not that you don’t want them there, just that you don’t currently understand how they will be supported and how problems dealt with?

Beaverhausen · 06/08/2018 08:05

HI OP have you discussed with the council how they plan on protecting neighbours in the event of anything happening or possibly being caused by these individuals?

I do no think you are being unreasonable, i guess most of us would have these concerns. But then we also have the the reasoning that everybody deserves a second chance.

Oysterbabe · 06/08/2018 08:05

Yanbu. I would be worried and so would most people here despite what they say.

Devilishpyjamas · 06/08/2018 08:06

We have a family member who lives in supervised housing. He can be noisy but the house is detached with just 4 residents and plenty of supervision. In those circumstances no one would have any objection

Apparently yes they would. Why I was advised (by community team) not to tell neighbours when my severely disabled son moves into supported housing. He’s not going to cause problems for anyone (he spent years in a semi detached without a single complaint), but apparently hearing about it in advance risks the pitchfork brigade.

rosylea · 06/08/2018 08:07

Yes, everyone move away, they are very close to neighbours, whilst possibly thinking, there but for the grace of god go I?

User1478944 · 06/08/2018 08:08

Complex needs just means a number of agencies are supporting a person so a person with complex needs in adult mental health services will be different to a child with complex needs being supported by education.

I work in this sector. Many of the people I work with have a history of sex offences against children. There should be comprehensive risk assessments for each person to ensure everyone is safe and it may be that the OP has no problems whatsoever but she is NBU to be concerned.
I would never take my child to the homes I work in so I can’t criticise someone for not wanting to live next door to them.

Sweetcarrielynne · 06/08/2018 08:10

I'm afraid YABU. It's not the fact that these people will live on a residential street that bothers you - it's the fact that it's your residential street. Unless you're suggesting that supported housing should be built miles from anyone else in an isolated area (which is patently ridiculous) you must accept that it will always be somewhere residential.

You don't actually know if this is going to cause you disruption yet. When I was a student I lived in a tenement flat, and the three flats on the floor below me were supported houses for young offenders who had been released from prison. They were significantly less noisy and disruptive than the students who lived next door.

I would be much more concerned about the truly horrible neighbour who you do know about - the one who put up offensive signs. If you've managed to live peacefully next to someone so awful for years, I imagine some vulnerable adults who are being supported by agencies will be significantly less of a problem.

PeakPants · 06/08/2018 08:13

Rosy I guarantee you would take a different tune if it was your house. Also, we are most likely not talking about some poor misunderstood MH patients here. Yes, some of them might be. It could also be a former heroin addict with multiple convictions for GBH. They need help, yes, but in this case they are not getting support- they are being shoved into a small house for the neighbours to deal with. I am guessing you live a nice middle-class existence where nobody would dream of putting a house like this. It's those who already live in less desirable areas with higher crime and antisocial behaviour that have to deal with this stuff. And then the middle class idiots have the temerity to call them judgmental for saying that enough is enough.

PeakPants · 06/08/2018 08:14

Unless you're suggesting that supported housing should be built miles from anyone else in an isolated area (which is patently ridiculous) you must accept that it will always be somewhere residential.

No but it could be staffed though, couldn't it?

rosylea · 06/08/2018 08:14

That's right, now bring sex offences against children into it. As if this thread couldn't get any worse!!

PeakPants · 06/08/2018 08:17

Rosy, sex offenders have to live somewhere too. As I said before, you are clearly privileged enough to not have to live in an area like this and can spout off all you like from your high horse, safe in the knowledge that no drug-addicts or ex-offenders will move next door to you.
I also why you're so thick-witted that you can't see that the main problem is that these people will be largely unsupported.

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