AIBU to not want to have homeless people with complex needs placed in the house next door to me?

[StressedandNameChanged]

I live in a 2 storey terraced house in a small residential street in an area with lots of rows of similar small terraced houses. It’s not the smartest area of town and hasn’t had the best reputation, but it was affordable when we moved here over 15 years ago, and we have been happy here. I live with my dh, and my youngest ds 12.

The end terrace house next door to me was bought by a private investment company earlier this year, and I recently found out that this was part of an organisation which combines property investment with supported housing. Following a lot of enquiries on my part, I found out that they planned to use the house as a house share for 5 vulnerable adults with complex needs and a history of homelessness. Complex needs means at least 2 of the following issues: substance misuse; history of offending; history of anti-social behaviour; mental health problems.

Communications with the organisations who will be managing the property have been problematic. They were initially very evasive, but once I had more info, the housing manager agreed to come to a residents’ association meeting to discuss the plans for the property. It didn’t go very well. On the agenda at the same meeting were problems with an existing supported housing project in the neighbourhood, where due to staffing issues and some challenging clients, the police are being called out every night.

The housing manager later offered to come and speak with dh and myself but as we were away at the time, we said we would arrange a date when we got back. Unfortunately, while we were away a neighbour put up some very offensive signs around the property, including some in my garden and went to the local paper. (This may be the same neighbour who has also been cutting cctv cables at the property). Since we got back we have tried to get in touch but no response. There is a meeting set up with the neighbourhood policing team and others, but the housing managers are not available to attend that either.

Meanwhile I have heard from elsewhere that at least one tenant would be moving into the property in 2 weeks’ time. I think the company running the property are trying to get it as a done deal with people living there before talking to anyone.

I know people can change and this is hopefully a good opportunity for the people who will be placed next door, but I also know there is no magic wand for people who have struggled with multiple serious issues for several years, and there will be relapses. I am worried about the location and the suitability of the property for this use. Most people who have suffered high levels of trauma and are trying to move away from a chaotic lifestyle want their own place where they can control their surroundings, not a shared house. I am worried about 5 vulnerable adults being housed together in a small Victorian terraced house with poor sound proofing. Many houses around here are used for student housing and they live 5 to a house, but they are groups of friends who choose to live together, and they can usually escape to their parents’ homes for a break. I know from experience the level of disruption just one tenant in a shared house can cause if they kick off, mainly to the other tenants but also to the neighbours. I am worried about some of the visitors they will attract. I am worried about the possible high turnover of tenants. I am worried about the potential disturbance for ourselves and other neighbours. I know what the streets around other hostels are like, and I will not feel safe if my street becomes like that. I am worried about the failure of the people managing the property to communicate, which doesn’t bode well if problems do occur. I am stressed out and losing sleep worrying about it.

Yes, I know I am being the very definition of a NIMBY, but I am amazed that this sort of facility can be placed in a residential street without any consultation with neighbours, the local authorities, the police or any existing services in the area.

Ask the staff what the house rules are. Some are dry, some are wet. Some are somewhere in between. There are places that allow use just outside and ours would never have allowed that.

I've always said I would massively rather live somewhere with people who have needs who have people meeting those needs, than someone on their own trying to deal with shit.

YANBU but not for the reason you think. It really bothers me that supportive housing is all kept in one area of a city - generally the poorer part - rather than spread out. Why don't the wealthy areas have supportive housing too? Lovely, safe areas. would be a good surroundings.

Why don't the wealthy areas have supportive housing too?

They absolutely do. Not their fair share, but they do. And should.

I think my concerns are also made worse by the other neighbouring hostel where the clients needs are not currently being met and we have safeguarding concerns. They aren't allowed to drink or smoke on the premises (many of the tenants are under 18, but there are older men who hang round who are always happy to buy them alcohol especially the younger girls) but they are being allowed to drink and smoke weed on the pavement outside, and if they don't meet curfew they are left outside all night.

FWIW I have no intention of treating any new neighbours as anything other than fellow humans. It is likely that I will already know some of them to speak to. Whatever my concerns about the location or the lack of management communication, none of that is their responsibility.

Hopefully we will get some communication from the management in advance of them moving in. And hopefully no recurrences of hostility from d**khead neighbour (who is now out of the country for a few weeks).

It is not OK to have under 18s denied entry after curfew. The youth shelters I worked in never did that. I'd be calling SS and asking about safeguarding.

@MrsTerryPratchett we have notified the police and the organisation running it of our safeguarding concerns and signs of CSE. Another neighbour who is more up on safeguarding issues is taking it up with SS.

jeez

“i once knew someone who was once homeless and they were super nice so you are a prejudice, disablist, judgemental scumbag OP because the one person i knew means ALL homeless/law breaking/drug addicted/mental health problems are like the one person i knew and you are therefore not allowed an opinion”

I understand what people are saying about the OP seeming mean, but we all know that antisocial behaviour exists, and that MH services are crimnally underfunded, and so it is only rational to wonder how this will pan out. Of the people that have had very difficult and distressing lives some are decent people and some are arses, some will have behaviour that they struggle to control. Just like any new neighbour. Its just human beings having the potential to be wankers.

I think it is very possible though that the new occupants will just want to get on with living their lives without confrontation. But that other neighbour is going to cause the aggro you fear if they create hostility from the get go. Anyone would become defensive if they are pre-judged to be trouble and made to feel unwelome without being given a chance and sometimes this causes people to feel there is no point in trying to improve their lives because nothing ever changes or gets better - they will always be judged to be worthless. If people have complex needs then this is the kind of thing that they may be vulnerable to, not just addiction issues.

I would try to get your neighbour to see that whilst they may want to keep on at the developer/ management to enforce the rules, that they would be better off making the newcomers feel welcome and that they too have a stake in keeping the neighbourhood nice and safe.

My main concern and objecion here is that it seems that the property company have found a nice little earner in providing this much needed accom to the council.

Especially as it seems that the house is full to capacity with no live in support worker. If their motivation is esy profit then the both the tenants and the council are risk being shafted, for more than just the rent. Knowing this I would also feel slightly pessimistic about the outcome, but wouldn't let the tenants see that. Other than keeping on at the management and being friendly I am not sure what can be done though.

We desperately need so much quality supported housing for people. Rethink the MH charity campaign for supported housing for MH needs if anyone wants to lend their support to that campaign.

I hope it goes well OP.

I wouldn’t be happy.
You are being nimby but I don’ blame you.
It’s just a fact that often people with mental health/substance misuse difficulties relapse chronically and this can mean a return to crime.
Very sad for them but not people of want as next door neighbours either. Whilst some may progress brilliantly and quickly move on from the housing, these are probably the neighbours you would want to keep, while those struggling are likely to be there longer.
I’d be doing whatever I could to oppose this down the correct channels.

@LuluJakey1 @crazycatgal agree. It's all too easy to be all PC and virtuous if the situation isn't on your doorstep.

That said it may be ok if it's named well - but what guarantee does OP have of that?

Op, I can understand your concerns. I was a court appointed social worker for ten years. I saw the best and worst of human behaviour during my time at court and in the local prison. Often times I felt like I was on a treadmill. I would obtain housing for released inmates, only to see them back in judicial system. The rate of recidivism is very high.
Poster’s on here are correct, support services are very slim. Assisting people with dual diagnoses requires intensive support and there are just not enough resources. Addiction can drive people to do things they most likely would not if they weren’t dope sick or seeking that next high.
I totally understand your concerns and believe they are valid. I also understand that everyone deserves a place to live. I hope your neighbors get the help and support they need. I guess you will either come to terms with this situation or decide you must find another home.

As I said earlier. I've lived next door to two places and worked in over ten.

PC and virtuous? Maybe. But only because I really think having everyone living everywhere is good. Having ghettos where we shove anyone who isn't perfectly well is wrong. Brain injury, offending, drug and alcohol issues, MH issues? That's probably over 50% of us. At one point or another.

Being rich and having that is one thing. Being poor and having that? You need accommodation. If we insisted that our government treated people properly there wouldn't be an issue. But poorly paid, poorly trained, badly motivated staff aren't as good as I was. And my incredible colleagues. That's the issue. Not the residents.

'Well yes. With good support I wouldn’t worry at all. Or at least there would be about 15 other ‘types’ of neighbours I would find less desirable. '

This from Devilishpyjamas upthread is how I would feel. The problems might come if the support wasn't good.

I don’t think it’s useful to shout out NIMBY insults to the writer of this post. She knows she’s wandering into this territory.

I do think you should go all out to meet up with the organisation/company that now own this house. Yep, circumstances haven’t helped here with that, it’s going to be a slog.

Frankly I would go on a bit of a charm offence with them - establish as good as you can links with whoever in the company is directly responsible for the residents. Then if things go belly up you’ve got someone you already have some rapport with.

I live in an area with three hostels, different from a shared house. In these hostels live, as you know, many different sorts of people. Twenty people living individually in very small rooms, sometimes with small children living with them.

I got to know one hostel quite well. Spotless, quiet generally, occasionally noisy with children upset or just playing. And another a few doors down - a doss house, sorry folks, with brawling, and night time raids by police called in by worried staff.

These were hostels, not shared houses of five people.

Perhaps there will be problems, if there are, you need a go-to person within the organisation (probably not the Head Honcho, immersed in admin/finance) but lower down who is hands on. Identifying who actually does this could be lengthy.

The house next door has been bought now. I’m really just saying, build links not walls. Links that help you, give you as much peace of mind as possible.

That other neighbour who is posting hate notices and cutting cables - now that sounds really out of order!

I think this sort of thing is really difficult because I don't see any good alternative to housing them in the community and that is going to mean next door to someone. But whoever they are actually next to will almost certainly be paying a higher price in terms of individual impact on their lives and in terms of devaluation of their own property value than the majority of people that aren't living next door. Possibly in this situation there ought to be a stipend paid to neighbours to compensate but I can't see it happening.

I dispise NIMBY attitudes

This would have been my point of view before I had to live in a really rough area beside social housing where they rehoused people who had been chased out of other areas. It was hell, frankly. Hopefully, in your case, OP, it will not be so bad, but it is annoying that the OP is being condemned for being worried about how this will affect her and her family.

I had seven break-ins to two years. One of my neighbours went to prison for raping a 75 year-old woman and I lived in constant fear of my house being set on fire. I don't what the solution is for housing anti-social people, but I ended up not caring if they had to sleep under bridges.

I'm not trying to frighten you, OP, yours is a very different situation than mine was, but it gets my goat that you are being so roundly condemned for being worried.

I have one of these group homes for adults a few houses down from me (in my nice "upper class" Los Angeles neighborhood. They have been there for a decade and you wouldn't know they were there except for their immediate neighbor who sounds like you and just complains for the sake of complaining. Far more disruptive to the neighborhood has been the house of 6 medical residents with a zillion fancy cars who think that they are not required to follow all the rules that the rest of us mere mortals have to follow and repeatedly block driveways and leave their garbage on the street for days at a time. Or the family on the corner who have loud noisy parties at every opportunity or the other family across the street who let their teenage sons play basketball complete with extremely bright outdoor court lights at all hours of the night.
And just to add, I have a 17 year old child with all the issues you describe. He has lived in multiple group homes - I think these are far more common here in the USA (or at least California where I live) than in the UK. And will probably be in many more to come over the next decade (if he lives that long). I am not quite sure where you think my child should live? But I'd much rather have any of his group homes as my neighbor than most of my current neighbors. The children/adults who are in these group homes are there because they are trying to work on their issues. The people you and some other posters are describing as being problematic are troublemakers who are NOT in group homes and NOT trying to get better.

Have you spoken to the council? They will need permission to change the use. It will be treated as a care home by CQC.

I am concerned about the lack of communication and absence of consultation. It wasn't great before dkhead neighbour's actions, and unfortunately his behaviour has given them an excuse to cut off communications. My communications with them had always been polite

The don’t HAVE to tell you anything. My son (complex needs - severe disabilities in his case) will soon be moving into a house with full time support. We discussed whether to tell the neighbours - I thought yes, just so they understood what any strange noises are (he’s non-verbal). The community team actually advised not to. They said it’s no-one else’s business and that some people can be vile (your neighbour for example). There’s no reason to think that Ds1 will be a problem for neighbours so to keep quiet. Having seen this thread I can see why they gave that advice - I was surprised at the time.

I’m not surprised that they’re properly investors. Care companies have to either be corporate types (many of the companies looking after those with complex needs are hedge fund backed for example - with all sorts of City boys at the top - yes it is morally bankrupt & unethical imo - a trade in people) or they need to team up with property investors to access the properties needed for support.

I had to live in a really rough area beside social housing where they rehoused people who had been chased out of other areas

This is NOT the same as supported living described by OP.

Yanbu OP. I would be worried too.

But the very, very worst neighbour I ever had was an owner occupier. They made my life miserable for 4 years. And there was very little I could do. Problems included drug abuse, drug dealing, fighting and arguing all night, every night, regular police attendance, problems with rubbish, problems with rats. The list goes on and on.

The good thing for you and other neighbours is that it is a managed situation. Give them a chance. Get a diary. Any problems record them in the diary. Then at least if you have major issues you can raise it and hopefully the management company will take it seriously enough to intervene.

Why don't the wealthy areas have supportive housing too

They do. I am in a ‘posh’ bit of town with a huge nail hostel opppsite. I had no idea it was there for a decade.

My severely disabled son is moving into supported living in a naice area.

Pmsl @ nail hostel. Bail hostel!

My main concern and objecion here is that it seems that the property company have found a nice little earner in providing this much needed accom to the council

This is exactly how care works now. Even Scope homes are now owned by a hedge fund backed corporate. The days of nice little charities moving in to support people with hands on directors are largely gone (a few gems still exist - but it’s hard for them to keep going - and they usually need someone else to provide housing).

This thread is frightening and disturbing, particularly the fact that MNHQ have allowed it to stay on. There is even a post from the US, seemingly commending a neighbour who threatened to shoot a teenage drug addict neighbour (00.47)