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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not want to have homeless people with complex needs placed in the house next door to me?

460 replies

StressedandNameChanged · 05/08/2018 23:57

I live in a 2 storey terraced house in a small residential street in an area with lots of rows of similar small terraced houses. It’s not the smartest area of town and hasn’t had the best reputation, but it was affordable when we moved here over 15 years ago, and we have been happy here. I live with my dh, and my youngest ds 12.

The end terrace house next door to me was bought by a private investment company earlier this year, and I recently found out that this was part of an organisation which combines property investment with supported housing. Following a lot of enquiries on my part, I found out that they planned to use the house as a house share for 5 vulnerable adults with complex needs and a history of homelessness. Complex needs means at least 2 of the following issues: substance misuse; history of offending; history of anti-social behaviour; mental health problems.

Communications with the organisations who will be managing the property have been problematic. They were initially very evasive, but once I had more info, the housing manager agreed to come to a residents’ association meeting to discuss the plans for the property. It didn’t go very well. On the agenda at the same meeting were problems with an existing supported housing project in the neighbourhood, where due to staffing issues and some challenging clients, the police are being called out every night.

The housing manager later offered to come and speak with dh and myself but as we were away at the time, we said we would arrange a date when we got back. Unfortunately, while we were away a neighbour put up some very offensive signs around the property, including some in my garden and went to the local paper. (This may be the same neighbour who has also been cutting cctv cables at the property). Since we got back we have tried to get in touch but no response. There is a meeting set up with the neighbourhood policing team and others, but the housing managers are not available to attend that either.

Meanwhile I have heard from elsewhere that at least one tenant would be moving into the property in 2 weeks’ time. I think the company running the property are trying to get it as a done deal with people living there before talking to anyone.

I know people can change and this is hopefully a good opportunity for the people who will be placed next door, but I also know there is no magic wand for people who have struggled with multiple serious issues for several years, and there will be relapses. I am worried about the location and the suitability of the property for this use. Most people who have suffered high levels of trauma and are trying to move away from a chaotic lifestyle want their own place where they can control their surroundings, not a shared house. I am worried about 5 vulnerable adults being housed together in a small Victorian terraced house with poor sound proofing. Many houses around here are used for student housing and they live 5 to a house, but they are groups of friends who choose to live together, and they can usually escape to their parents’ homes for a break. I know from experience the level of disruption just one tenant in a shared house can cause if they kick off, mainly to the other tenants but also to the neighbours. I am worried about some of the visitors they will attract. I am worried about the possible high turnover of tenants. I am worried about the potential disturbance for ourselves and other neighbours. I know what the streets around other hostels are like, and I will not feel safe if my street becomes like that. I am worried about the failure of the people managing the property to communicate, which doesn’t bode well if problems do occur. I am stressed out and losing sleep worrying about it.

Yes, I know I am being the very definition of a NIMBY, but I am amazed that this sort of facility can be placed in a residential street without any consultation with neighbours, the local authorities, the police or any existing services in the area.

OP posts:
StressedandNameChanged · 25/09/2018 17:34

The first tenants started moving in at the beginning of September.

I started off by introducing myself to the people who moved in, and the people who were supporting them. And it was quiet for the first couple of days. The tenants were younger than I expected, given that they had undertaken not to house anyone in a similar age range to the young homeless hostel, only a block away. I found out what the concierge service covering overnights and weekends was. It was a private security company, one man in a car who would drive past a couple of times a night and slightly more often at weekends.

Then I found out that one of the tenants was out on licence for multiple arson. The arson he was jailed for was widely reported because it included one of the biggest local fires in recent history. The newspaper reported a history of fascination with flames from a young age, setting himself on fire for fun, and setting things on fire just so he could watch and film it on his phone. Apparently he had been sofa surfing since being released on licence, as none of the hostels would take him with that history. So they put him in a terraced house with absolutely minimal supervision instead.

The company had previously promised not to put anyone in the property with a history of arson (I hadn't even thought about that possibility before then). This stressed me out (slight understatement) as not only did it make me feel that my family was unsafe, but it also demonstrated that any promised made by the company running the property were worthless, and that they had no regard for the wellbeing or safety of my family or any of the other neighbours.

Even without this offending history, the lad, only in his early 20s had mental health problems and had never lived independently before, so should not have been left without support or supervision.

Within a few days of the hostel being tenanted, I was woken in the early hours by loud shouting and scuffling coming from next door and the front street. I pulled some clothes on and went outside to tell them to be quiet. There were a few people already in the street, and then 2 police officers came out of the house ejecting 2 men who weren't tenants there. (Theoretically there were not meant to be any overnight guests, but obviously someone had let them in). About 20 minutes after the police had gone, the 2 men came back, shouting and threatening to brick the windows. I called the police back again. I finally managed to get back to sleep but at 6am I was woken by what I thought was someone hammering on our front door. It was actually next door's front door but so noisy that it sounded like our house. The police were back again for the third time that morning.

I didn't have an out of hours phone number for the people managing the house, but I left a message on the phone number I had been given for office hours to let them know what had happened. I didn't get a response.

From midday that day, there was a constant stream of people in their late teens and early 20s in and out of the property, openly drinking strong cider and spirits. Although we had been told no alcohol or drugs would be allowed at the property, there was no-one to enforce the rule, and since it was a Saturday we didn't have anyone we could contact.

This went on throughout the weekend, and by Monday even more worryingly younger teenagers living locally (aged 12-14 but already known to the police as at risk of being involved in crime)also turned up and started hanging around. We then got in touch with our local policing team. No-one from the property management turned up until the Tuesday. There had been 5 police incidents at the property within 5 days of it opening.

Since then, they have put security guards actually in the property over the weekends, and there are staff there more often during the day during the week which did help put our minds at rest a bit, especially when eventually the arsonist was moved out - for not keeping to the terms of his licence, but hopefully to somewhere where he would be able to get more support.

The presence of security guards haven't stopped one of the tenants dealing from the property and nearby streets. His customers turn up at all hours and shout up at the windows (possibly to avoid being picked up by the cctv). Others aren't so bothered by the cctv and will hammer on the front door, and if that fails, go into the back garden and hammer on the back door. This is still going on, and wakes us up most nights, as do frequent slamming doors throughout the night within the property.

We are in touch with the police, environmental health, our MP and councillors. We are also in touch with the company managing the property, but the head office rarely responds to our emails, and never answers any questions we ask.

A junior member of staff has now been assigned the task of responding to our concerns. Her reply to my dh's last email was to apologise for making us feel uncomfortable or upset. Uncomfortable and upset is a bit of an understatement. Unsafe, sleep deprived and unable to relax in our home would be more accurate.

This is not boding well. I am now wondering whether we can continue living here, despite having so many ties in the community. I also can't imagine anyone else wanting to live here with that going on next door.

OP posts:
YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 17:35

Putting a known arsonist in a built up area with communal facilities is absolutely batshit!

Joe66 · 25/09/2018 17:43

Is it necessary to have an HMO license under the terms of your local authority's rules. I'm not sure because presumably it's classified as supported housing. The requirements for a license are changing on the 1st October. Is there anything in the licensing system for objections or anything along those lines?

florenceheadache · 25/09/2018 17:44

Do you own your house? I don’t know who would buy it if you put it on the market.

AntiHop · 25/09/2018 17:45

Jesus op that sounds like a fucking nightmare.

StressedandNameChanged · 25/09/2018 17:48

@Joe66 as the landlord is a supported housing organisation, rather than a private landlord, it isn't covered by HMO licensing. I was told this by the council's licensing officer who has been round to check their fire safety, gas safety, etc.

Our council are still trying to establish whether it will need planning permission for change of use. The company running it insist it does not constitute a change from being a shared house, which it was previously.

OP posts:
BlancheM · 25/09/2018 17:52

This is uncanny. I commented way back in the thread as there are similarities, only the HMO next to us is all done privately so no security or community support (at least none for us neighbours to speak to as the resident's business is their own).
One of the occupants is also an arsonist. They hold bonfires all the time. Last night I heard an explosion, I thought 'here we go, throwing deodorant cans into the bonfire again'. Wrong! The bloody house was up in flames. Sick of it, wondering what's next.

Libertarian · 25/09/2018 17:53

@StressedandNameChanged - sorry this is happening to you. I remember this thread when you posted it (I've namechanged since then) and think it's absolutely appalling that these scum bags (sorry "vulnerable people") get dumped on less affluent neighbourhoods.

StressedandNameChanged · 25/09/2018 17:56

It is a nightmare.
@florenceheadache I do own my house. The company accused me of being only worried about the value of my house when I expressed my concerns before anyone moved in. At that time, that wasn't what I was worried about, as I didn't intend to move. But now that I have been living with this for less than a month, it is already having an effect on my mental and physical health, and moving is looking like a sensible option. I would be able to sell it. There would be someone who would be willing to buy it at a knockdown price - probably the sort of landlord who I would hate to buy the house next door to me.

OP posts:
Libertarian · 25/09/2018 17:57

And I notice everything that I, and a few more prescient posters predicted is unfortunately happening. I wonder what those tgst thought it was a good idea have to say for themselves?

YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 18:02

Libertarian that a licensing officer dealing with fire safety is a fucking idiot for putting an arsonist and pyromaniac in a HMO?

LeftRightCentre · 25/09/2018 18:08

Unsurprising. These private companies are always about profit first. I don't know how anyone expects different. Time to move, I think.

Libertarian · 25/09/2018 18:09

@YeTalkShiteHen - you were one of those shouting the op down for being concerned about the inevitable. But besides the alarming decision to house an arsonist there the op has so far had to deal with public drinking, disorder and disturbance into the small hours. And next to no supervision, all inevitable with places like this. Yet you and others harangued the poster for being concerned? I hope you use this to reassess any future virtue signalling. Why are hardworking people constantly threw Under the bus in favour of drug addicts, criminals and other ner do wells?

YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 18:11

Libertarian no, I suggested keeping an open mind and a record of issues if they arose.

I did argue with some arsey posters who assumed all homeless people were down and outs. I stand by that.

This HMO is badly managed, badly organised and some feckin eejit saw fit to put an arsonist in there.

YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 18:11

Yet you and others harangued the poster for being concerned? I hope you use this to reassess any future virtue signalling

I didn’t.

And nobody likes a smart arse smug I told you so type.

LeftRightCentre · 25/09/2018 18:13

If you know you can sell your house, I'd see an estate agent asap. This will never change. It will bring down the whole street but the company doesn't care, they don't have to live around it. 'Uncomfortable and upset', which a load of minimising, patronising bollocks.

Libertarian · 25/09/2018 18:14

And nobody likes a smart arse smug I told you so type @YeTalkShiteHen - you could just admit you were wrong?

YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 18:16

Libertarian I wasn’t one of the ones telling OP she was wrong and having a go.

So how’s about you stop telling me what I did and didn’t do, and admit YOU are wrong?

Either way, my point stands.

TheLette · 25/09/2018 18:17

Sorry to hear this. As I recommended, please involve every agency you can think of and ensure that you complain regularly and in writing. Make sure you get a police contact. I found emphasizing that it wasn't a case of me hating people with mental illness (it really wasn't!) but rather concern for the neighborhood and the residents themselves (who weren't receiving appropriate care in my opinion) really helped to get councillors, police etc involved. I would also promptly find out which local authority these residents "belong" to and complain in writing to them. Also put in a freedom of information request to that local authority asking them lots of questions about their assessment of the property, how they approve residents to live there etc, what they do to monitor the situation on an ongoing basis etc. Funnily enough the place next door to us got shut down pretty quickly after I put in a freedom of information request and a written complaint.

YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 18:17

Because I spent the thread having a go at snotty people who make assumptions, and label people they don’t know.

OP wasn’t doing that. You however......

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 25/09/2018 18:19

His sounds problematic not from a NIMBY point of view but from the lack of support services being offered to people who need it. One would hope that those being offered tenancy in the property are carefully screened but it doesn’t sound like this is happening. Certainly any tenant breaking the rules regularly will soon be evicted . In the mean time keep a diary of issues like th one you have described here OP. I would be complain8ng about that from any tenant not just a supported tenancy.

Apart from that I read page 1 and wonder for the life of me why the awful caroldecker hasn’t been banned by MN yet. Her posts are always nasty and she sounds a horrific individual.

speakingwoman · 25/09/2018 18:29

Don’t worry OP, I’m sure all the people who criticised you will volunteer to take in one vulnerable person each.....

StressedandNameChanged · 25/09/2018 19:40

@BlancheM that is scary. Theoretically if that house is a licensed HMO, which it may be or have to be come October, the councils housing enforcement team may be able to help, as landlords can lose their licence if they fail to address anti-social behaviour. This is why I was a bit disappointed that my neighbours didn't qualify as an HMO.

@TheLette I am keeping a log, as are other neighbours. Some of my neighbours on the other side of the road, who are lovely, are often in their front gardens chatting and keeping an eye on things. I get on well with our neighbourhood policing team, so we're in touch. In an interesting twist, the same company have bought the house opposite our former PCSO, so he's keeping an eye on what happens here so he knows what to expect. I'm also in regular touch with councillors etc.

It may still have to go through planning, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that. You would have thought with that possibility hanging over them, that they would have made more effort for the first few months at least, selecting tenants more carefully, managing it better. As it is they have managed to piss off not only the neighbours but the police and council officers as well.

OP posts:
derxa · 25/09/2018 19:45

OOI, property companies sometimes like to spread this rumour when their intention is that the neighbours will be anxious to sell up and will accept a low offer. I've had this threat. I know what you mean.

BlancheM · 25/09/2018 19:52

I know stressed, I canvassed for that new legislation. I'm not too hopeful what good it will do in effect but time will tell.

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