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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

999 replies

CocoDeMoll · 02/08/2018 20:53

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys? Grin

OP posts:
Pengggwn · 03/08/2018 10:16

Teateaandmoretea

Really?

I live in the average British town. When I got my boobs out to feed, I was praised by little old ladies and nobody else said a dicky bird.

MrSpock · 03/08/2018 10:18

I do think society is unfriendly to new mums, whether they breastfeed or not.

Ennirem · 03/08/2018 10:18

I don't see why women shouldn't express their view that they didn't BF because it was awkward, painful, exhausting etc. That is their experience.

No, that is of course absolutely fine. But whenever other women say that they had a good experience of breastfeeding, or that they had some initial struggles but found it worth it in the end, the response is always "well you were one of the lucky ones", or "well bully for you" or similarly aggressive put downs - the implication being that their experience has no place in the discussion as it is vanishingly rare or showing off.

And actually breastfeeding doesn't have to tie you to your baby, or no more than one is ever tied to a newborn after the first 6 weeks or so); and it absolutely is NOT always painful.

It was for me, initially, as my baby had tongue tie. But through feeding groups etc I have met lots of women who simply popped baby on and away they went, usually women who'd had a vaginal delivery with minimal complications of the type we all hope for and unfortunately few of us get Sad.

I'd say they are unusual and most women experience at least some level of discomfort for a week or so as they and their baby learn the ropes; but extreme pain, bleeding etc as I experienced is rarer, and usually is because of an underlying issue which if there was proper support could be resolved quickly in most cases.

Please note I am using words like "usually" and "most", so please don't come back saying i am shaming and suggesting formula feeding mums just didn't try hard enough, as this would be disingenuous bollocks (which judging by your posts so far, I feel I probably need to head off at the pass).

Teateaandmoretea · 03/08/2018 10:18

The old ladies were normal, but some of those saying nothing had foul opinions. They are just not brave enough to voice them. Misogynists live in average towns.

Teateaandmoretea · 03/08/2018 10:19

Yes exactly Mr Spock.

QueenofmyPrinces · 03/08/2018 10:22

Belittling breastfeeding would be saying that it's worse, and that you shouldn't do it. Where, on this planet, have you ever seen someone saying that?

Belittling means to dismiss something as not being important.

A lot of people are dismissive of breast feeding, the research and the benefits and say it doesn’t matter whether a baby is formula fed or breast fed.

And that’s fine, people can believe or not believe the research about the benefits of it, that’s their choice.

I nearly had to formuls feed my current baby and I absolutely would have done in his best interests, but I still would have always known it wasn’t as good for him as breast milk would have been.

Some FF mothers don’t believe the research and some FF mothers do believe the research. I’m pretty sure that there are a lot of BF mothers who don’t believe the research and BF for other reasons. It’s all fine.

We all do what we do for our own reasons and nobody should be judged for it.

As a poster has said above, FF mothers and BF mothers all feel judged and criticised so I guess we all just have to live with it although we absolutely shouldn’t.

londonrach · 03/08/2018 10:22

Seriously i just see support for both. I ff dd as worked for us. Best decision i made. Ive said before why best decision for us and if i had another dc id ff again. Ive had friends who bf and best decision for them. Makes no difference how baby is fed just whatever works best. Its hard enough being a mum without worrying about. If ff or bf.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 03/08/2018 10:23

The majority of British women use formula, so are emotionally invested in downplaying the importance of breastfeeding, and predisposed to be resentful of women who have successfully breastfed and advocate it as they take it as a judgment on themselves

What bollocks most don’t give it that much thought

And it’s seems strange that it is only those that witter on and on about bf who have encountered negative comments in public.

I never received any negative comments lots of head tilted smiles (with both forms of feeding many people like to see babies) and a few embarrassed looks from men it wasn’t shaming or harmful they just felt embarrassed probably down to thinking that I thought they were having a look at my boob (which I didn’t think)

Ennirem · 03/08/2018 10:24

Belittling breastfeeding would be saying that it's worse, and that you shouldn't do it. Where, on this planet, have you ever seen someone saying that?

Thursday, your own post suggested that it was more trouble than it was worth and that women were being pressured into suffering basically and shouldn't be. There was no acknowledgement that for a lot of women who feed, it is not painful and is actually enjoyable! Just a blanket "it hurts, why would anyone want to do that?" attitude!

londonrach · 03/08/2018 10:26

Tea..you must be an unusual town as ive only seen support for bf mums Certainly in my town. I chose not the bf for about 10 other very good reasons for me and dd and dh.

MrSpock · 03/08/2018 10:32

We as a society sadly aren’t very family oriented. Even things like public transport has crap access for pushchairs. People find kids a nuisance rather than anything, and it’s a shame.

I remember when DS1 was fairly little and was screaming on a train. I was getting funny looks and felt awful because he just wouldn’t stop. A lovely lady with three children told her DS to go over to mine and show him his batman toy. DS stopped crying for a bit and was fascinated by the older boy.

Everyone else had just looked on angrily. I always try to help if I see a distressed child now.

Ennirem · 03/08/2018 10:33

It's a great phrase, and it affects those who choose to BF not at all.

No it doesn't affect those who already are feeding and happy with that choice; but it might affect a mum who has done her research, wants to breastfeed, is facing difficulties and a lack of support in the early days - and then all the effort she is putting in is dismissed as being worth nothing, for nothing, because as long as her baby's belly is full that is the only thing that matters.

Such a mum might find it demoralising, especially if that phrase is being thrown at her constantly by, e.g., her group of mum friends whenever she tries to share her struggles and discuss the challenges, as a way of shutting her down because they are not bf and don't want to hear about it. It is hard for a bf mum to find her 'real life' tribe because after a very early point there are so few of us. So people telling her effectively that her struggles are worth nothing by everyone she actually knows could be very damaging.

Ghanagirl · 03/08/2018 10:38

@Ennirem
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head...

Ennirem · 03/08/2018 10:38

What bollocks most don’t give it that much thought

Sigh. Predisposed does not mean will. It means that in a situation where they are having the discussion they are pre-disposed (more likely to) react a certain way than someone with no dog in the fight. Just, to be fair, as women who breastfeed are predisposed to give more credence to the evidence that says they are doing a good thing, but will not necessarily believe that. It's just there are far fewer of us, so in any discussion of the issue online the weight of the conversation is always going to tilt towards the majority view (which is formula feeding).

Teateaandmoretea · 03/08/2018 10:39

I think Londonrach you live in a strange town if there are no misogynists there. You never ever know what people are thinking.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 03/08/2018 10:42

Yes I know the meaning of the word Hmm

And I understood the point in the statement Smile

Pengggwn · 03/08/2018 10:46

Ennirem

I just don't recognise that scenario, Ennirem. Perhaps we move on different circles, but I encountered nothing but support for my decision to BF.

And I don't think anybody is absolutely entitled to "share their struggles and discuss the challenges", irrespective of what other people want. Feeding is a very personal choice, and clearly provokes strong emotions (though it shouldn't). If a new mum talks about BF constantly to a group of FF mums, I am not surprised they stop wanting to hear about it. It might come across as she won't stop banging on about how much harder she is trying than they did, and perhaps that is why they "shut her down", because she is giving off a superior vibe?

Or, perhaps they are better friends than that, and are just trying to reassure her that her baby is fine?

Bottleup · 03/08/2018 10:48

The whole debate drives me mad! Rather than arguing about how best to feed our children (particularly when many of us dont actually have a choice if we can't bf) why don't we join together and fight for things which impact ALL of our children's health like clean air, safe roads, decent schools etc.

Witchend · 03/08/2018 10:50

I'd be pretty certain FF companies do have people to post. Actually I'd think they'd be pretty stupid not to, and that's certainly not something I'd accuse them of.
Think about it: It's advertising reaching straight to the people they want it to reach-far more effective than a random billboard, and it's free.

What's more people look at an advert and are sceptical about claims when they know it's an advert. Random user123456 saying "my child had constant wind when I bf them, I changed to ff and they were immediately happier and slept through the night etc..." is far more likely to have an impact. People think "oh it's worth a try". They even pass it onto others in RL. "Someone I know said they changed from bf to ff and baby was immediately happier."

Also, as random user123456 they can make claims that are totally false without fear of being pulled up by the advertising standard. So User123456 says "ff means that their fine motor control develops quicker because they play with the bottle" or something totally random like that. But people read it think "oh I didn't know that" and again, pass it on as fact.

I don't think mn does discourage bfing. As others have said, anyone commenting they did it, or talking about the benefits is shouted on for making people feel bad about ff.

"Fed is best" falls through when someone posts that their friend/neighbour/mil is feeding the 6 week old baby rice doesn't it?

The thing with the bf/ff debate is that people do latch onto an excuse as to why they didn't breastfeed. But it's passed on. Person 1 says "oh I wanted to bf but I couldn't because my milk was too yellow*".
Then person 2 who's trying to bf but is not confident and worrying that they may be doing it wrong thinks "oh that's the problem, my milk is too" and they tell people too. So the excuse goes on, passed by mothers trying to be helpful.
(*Yes that was deliberately a rubbish excuse)

When my oldest was a baby you'd be amazed at the number of people whose "baby was allergic to bm"
If there genuinely had been that many people whose children were allergic to bm then the human race would have died out. Grin
Most people's reason was either the baby cried or they were sick-a fairly standard thing both ways. But I came across people saying it at toddler group, and finding the next week someone else had stopped trying because they thought "oh my baby's sick a lot too, must be the same" in some cases when breastfeeding had been going fairly well. But they were then scared that they might be causing their child damage by feeding them something that they're allergic to.

The thing about the benefits is in any individual person you cannot put anything down to them being or not breastfed. So it comes down to anecdotal evidence which is easily dismissed and can easily be used the other way.
On average the child who is breastfed has been shown to have fewer ear infections, fewer (or less severe) allergies, be more intelligent, less likely to have severe asthma, less likely to need SALT etc.

But on the individual side, ds was breastfed and he had constant ear infections from 10 weeks old and still suffers from his ears.
Dh was formula fed and has no allergies etc.

Dh's brothers both have an allergy to a common food product. #1 was formula fed and is very allergic. Tiny bit of it and he'll spend the next 24 hours bent over the toilet #2 was breastfed and gets minor tummy ache if he eats a lot.

Was this due to the way they were fed as babies? Something no one can tell. It could be, but equally well it could be just one of those things. As I said dh was ff and is not allergic at all.

Scrolblewomp · 03/08/2018 10:53

I'm an accountant who works in construction.

Formula is AMAZING! It kept both of my children alive, bloody great stuff!

Queenofthedrivensnow · 03/08/2018 10:53

If you have read the politics of breastfeeding you will know formula companies would do it.

I think what people forget is that the bf lobby have no cash to make and no product to push.

Queenofthedrivensnow · 03/08/2018 10:59

I also think fed is best is bullshit as well.
So much whataboutery on this subject it's almost peaktrans.

Fact of the matter is most mums who don't bf don't bf because they don't want to. The shrill replies this generates from mums who couldn't but tried hard and developed a massive shoulder chip about bf discussion are not representative.

It's all rooted in neoliberalism anyway - long as you get to do what you want (what you have been brainwashed to do)

Ariela · 03/08/2018 10:59

Not just in relation to breastfeeding/formular feeding, there is IMO, a HUGE industry out there working on manipulating all manner of social media feeds for a multitude of reasons.
Including the Russians.

Pengggwn · 03/08/2018 11:02

It's all rooted in neoliberalism anyway - long as you get to do what you want (what you have been brainwashed to do)

Okay. Hit us with some honesty, at least. This is judging. Isn't it?

BertrandRussell · 03/08/2018 11:02

I agree with you, OP. It’s really depressing how anti bf Mumsnet is. Not pro choice but actively anti bf. G

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