To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

[CocoDeMoll]

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys?

Ennirem

The whole post drips with it, Ennirem.

"the magical solution"

"Fed isn’t best. Fed is the bare minimum."

Etc.

It is judgemental and nasty, given that how other mothers choose to feed is none of her business.

Ennirem

No, I haven't. Breastfeeding is painful and it does tie you to the baby. There are undeniable benefits, but I don't see why women shouldn't express their view that they didn't BF because it was awkward, painful, exhausting etc. That is their experience.

Nobody else needs to comment.

It seems quite fair to me? Pro breastfeeding but pro formula too.

The majority of British women use formula, so are emotionally invested in downplaying the importance of breastfeeding, and predisposed to be resentful of women who have successfully breastfed and advocate it as they take it as a judgment on themselves

^ this is exactly it.

I have not seen ANYONE belittle breastfeeding

Then you either need to look up the definition of belittling or you need to re-read the many, many posts that are ALWAYS on mumsnet saying all the research into BF is flawed, that there is no benefit to it and it makes no difference whether a baby is BF or FF.

QueenofmyPrinces

I don't NEED to do anything. I haven't seen it. When I see it, I will accept that it is there.

that there is no benefit to it and it makes no difference whether a baby is BF or FF.

That’s not belittling it. That’s saying that the differences between the two are so tiny, that choosing either is preference.

See I feel exactly the same but with FF. it shouldn't be happening to anyone AT ALL! Nobody should be being judged or be faced with attitudes for the way they choose to feed.

Maybe I'm being too idealistic.

This is the exact crux of the infant feeding issue. It isn't about formula companies I don't think (although the third world stuff is truly awful). We have somehow managed to get to this point where women feel criticised either way, a woman's place is in the wrong after all. So they become defensive. Why are queen's experiences being discounted? How dare people be negative towards a woman breastfeeding? They dare because of misogyny, same as people judging for ff really. Blame women for the ills of the world.

I just don’t get why other people get so involved in just a personal decision.

The thing is, I don't think people are getting involved in anyone's personal decision on the individual level - they are just engaging with the wider public issue of why so many women in the UK are using formula apparently not as a 'personal decision' but because they feel/believe they had no choice.

This raises the question of what it was that prevented these women from breastfeeding and whether they received adequate support to overcome any issues that might have been surmountable or not (as it simply is illogical to believe that the majority of women who stopped breastfeeding having initiated it, because they believed they had no option but to do so, actually physically couldn't feed or their baby couldn't, as we do not differ significantly biologically as a population to, for example, Scandinavian women and babies whose success rate is much higher).

The high intention rate and low success rate of breastfeeding specifically in the UK (as opposed to a high intention rate and a high rate of people subsequently choosing to switch to formula, which is far rarer based on what mothers self-report) indicates a serious issue or issues in our culture, social structures, economic environment, or health provision which is failing those mothers who want to breastfeed and feel huge distress when they are told/come to believe they physically cannot do so.

This pain can be extreme, and shouldn't be dismissed with "well women wouldn't feel bad about it if we just all pretend breastfeeding is rubbish and painful and inconvenient and no better for babies anyway".

Just as formula feeding mums should have every support to make that decision freely and without judgement, women who want to breastfeed, and in all probability are perfectly physically capable of breastfeeding, should be supported to do so. Currently they are being let down on a grand scale and that IS worth talking about.

The majority of British women use formula, so are emotionally invested in downplaying the importance of breastfeeding, and predisposed to be resentful of women who have successfully breastfed and advocate it as they take it as a judgment on themselves

I used both. Breastfeeding didn’t work for us so switched to formula. I plan to try breastfeeding again as DS1 couldn’t latch so that won’t necessarily be the same again, but have no problems changing to formula if it doesn’t work.

I don’t feel judged or upset by someone else successfully breastfeeding.

The issue is people get emotionally tied up in either one. People do it about birth too - they get into their head what they want, feel crappy if it doesn’t work and take it out on other women who’ve made different choices.

If we all just accepted that we do what works for us, and that it’s okay to do either and to be open minded this wouldn’t happen.

I don't NEED to do anything. I haven't seen it. When I see it, I will accept that it is there.

I suggest you step away from mn and read the comments section of any tabloid newspaper in relation to breastfeeding. It is frankly sickening.

The majority of British women use formula, so are emotionally invested in downplaying the importance of breastfeeding, and predisposed to be resentful of women who have successfully breastfed and advocate it as they take it as a judgment on themselves

100% this.

Some of the comments I get about me breast feeding can be very hurtful and make me feel absolutely shit about myself and the women who slate me for breast feeding are always then very quick to list off the 20 benefits of formula and why I should be doing that instead. I can’t bear it.

I would never, ever sit with a formuls feeding mother, sneer at her and make hurtful comments about her choice of feeding method, make her feel ridiculed, and then tell her all the reasons she should be breast feeding instead.

But it seems fine for a FF mother to do it to me.

I am only talking about my own experience here, not making any sweeping statements.

Then you either need to look up the definition of belittling or you need to re-read the many, many posts that are ALWAYS on mumsnet saying all the research into BF is flawed, that there is no benefit to it and it makes no difference whether a baby is BF or FF.

How is that belittling breastfeeding? It's saying that both are fine.

It isn't fine queen and you need to find some nicer friends

No one should be ridiculed for breastfeeding or formula feeding. We as women should be standing up for each other against this crap.

Belittling breastfeeding would be saying that it's worse, and that you shouldn't do it. Where, on this planet, have you ever seen someone saying that?

Teateaandmoretea

I am not arguing that those attitudes don't exist, but why would I go looking for them? If I have to trawl through thousands of trolly rants about immigrants and chicks with dicks, I would much prefer to stay in the normal world, where nobody judged me for BF.

"Fed isn’t best. Fed is the bare minimum."

But that is actually, factually, true. Fed is the bare minimum. The slogan "Fed is Best" is a reductive, reactive, and utterly nuance-free bit of rubbish. It is meaningless and sets the bar for best so low as to be meaningless. I've never understood why, when looking for a rebuff to the reductive and nuance-free idiocy of the "breast is best" slogan, formula feeding mums have opted for something just as lack-witted.

No-one is saying formula is the bare minimum; "fed is best" could mean "well I've given my baby some bread soaked in cow's milk, they're full and sleeping now, fed is best!" If what mums mean is "formula is best", or "appropriately nourished is what matters", or any of a hundred other actually defensible positions, they should say so. "Fed is best" as a retort to "breast is best" is the language of the playground.

As I have said before, on many threads. The ‘Breast is Best’ message is often unhelpful and can be damaging to maternal mental health. I had PND because of failed BF due to undiagnosed tongue tie. My best friend had PND because of failed Bf. A woman in my NCT group bought unprescribed heart medication online to try to increase her supply for her newborn who had just been hospitalised with dehydration and weight loss and a week old. She continued to do this until the baby was hospitalised a second time and had to be put on a drip. Because the lactation consultant told her to keep going with EBF.

Does any of this sound normal or healthy?

Breastfeeding is ideal and everyone should be encouraged to give it a go if they want to. But mandating that breastfeeding is the best which implies that you are failing your child if you don’t do it causes damage to mothers and babies.

And, I have pointed this it before too, the emotional pressure of Breast is Best works on the wrong audience. So middle class mummies, with statistically higher rates of BF flog themselves to death to try to make it work. And working class and younger mothers, who often have to go back to work sooner, ignore it. So not really working.

If I have to trawl through thousands of trolly rants about immigrants and chicks with dicks, I would much prefer to stay in the normal world, where nobody judged me for BF.

😂😂😂

Way too over thinking it! It's just the western love affair with processed and "clean" food.

You might be right. I've noticed this fed is best thing recently cropping up. It was never a thing when I had my older dc. Cambridge analitica and all that. They could easily set up fake accounts and do it.

@QueenofmyPrinces the post you quoting and '100% agree with' is a sweeping statement!!

'The majority of British women'.... if that ain't a sweeping generalisation that what is?

The majority of British women use formula and are therefore predisposed to resent breastfeeding mums.

Absolute bullshit. I accept you have been judged and belittled for breastfeeding, I don't deny it happens, but those people are certainly not a majority. For example, the majority of my friends have successfully breastfed, despite encountering numerous hardships and issues and I have nothing but respect for them. But then, they don't judge me for formula feeding so I guess we must be in a minority. And one I'm glad to be in frankly.

Ennirem

I disagree with your characterisation of the phrase "fed is best". Yes, it is a simplification, but it is deliberately simplified, so as to spare mothers the emotional and mental stress of having to defend their feeding choices. It says, it's okay, your baby is fine, stop worrying. It's a great phrase, and it affects those who choose to BF not at all.

But these characters live in the normal world it is what people we meet everyday actually think when they are behind a keyboard. I totally get that reading them isn't going to make for an entertaining morning but more people have these attitudes than you are acknowledging. Lots of people start wittering on about 'discretion' for example in relation to bfing in public like of a woman accidentally flashes a bit of boob they will be mentally scarred. Our society is really unfriendly to new mums that is fact to me.