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Original poster

To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

999 replies

CocoDeMoll · 02/08/2018 20:53

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys? Grin

OP posts:
zsazsajuju · 04/08/2018 11:21

Also as for changing the culture so women can sit and breastfeed for the first three months, that still wouldn’t have helped me as simply my daughter and I were unable to do it so she was getting enough to eat (and for all those who say if she breastfeeding she is magically getting enough, don’t be ridiculous). Also when do we sleep? Or eat. Or wash? Or look after other children?

We are lucky in this country to have quite a good culture around maternity leave. I don’t think putting any more pressure on women to breastfeed helps. It was easy for you or at least it worked out. Good. For me and many other not so much but my only regret now is that I made things so hard for myself. Formula is fine. Sibling studies show no difference between formula fed and breastfed siblings. So let’s stop all this pressure on women.

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 11:21

trying to get their figure back immediately.

I’ve seen this advertised as an advantage of bf.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2018 11:23

"Word, buntll. A few women (and babies) find it easy to breastfeed so they simply can’t understand anything different."
Thing is, I actually don't think anyone on this thread is saying anything of the sort.

thereareflowersinmygarden · 04/08/2018 11:26

It wasn't easy- it wasn't easy at all so don't make assumptions about me as I'm not about you.

Again, that approach wouldn't work for everyone but it would work for quite a lot who don't have opportunity to even try it.

Btw, you eat while the baby is feeding, learn to shower in around three minutes and co-sleep with the baby.

GreenMeerkat · 04/08/2018 11:26

Sofa sit feed applies to FF too. I remember countless hours sat on the sofa feeding my babies with bottles. It's simply the way with newborn and young babies. Feed, sleep, repeat... FF or BF

PineapplePower · 04/08/2018 11:27

don’t think formula particularly needs advertising other than to get parents to pick one brand over another

You could say this about a lot of the products that are advertised, yet ... they still advertise.

But in the case of formula, it’s not just trying to convince mums to switch brands. That’s just trying to get a bigger slice of the pie. What you want is to expand the pie.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 11:31

pengggwn she had already stated her views and pov and you insisted she was lying. And she's already witnessed you being abusive towards me whilst I tried fruitlessly to have a debate about issues with you. What possible reason did she think to have you would conduct yourself with any more sophistication and maturity if she were to jump through the flaming hoops you dictate?

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 11:34

Ennirem

No, she hasn't. Her statements are disingenuous in the extreme and, when challenged directly, she buggered off.

You were not abused.

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2018 11:35

I am always amazed when people say they aren't influenced by marketing. If people weren't indluenced, businesses wouldn't spend mega bucks on it.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 11:39

BertrandRussell

I am definitely influenced by all sorts of marketing. But I make my own choices. I see an advert for a product and I think, "I could use that" or "I like that". I can't see how that is a problem.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 11:42

Bertrand Russell ah but some people are special! Third dimensional power is a thing that happens to other people, because they are such strong characters and only weak people are subject to generally acknowledged powerful influences. Same reason they prefer simplistic and broad brush arguments and positions, and will always try and drag everything back to the personal rather than the theoretical - simple minds like simple things, and don't like to acknowledge that there is more to reality than their own subjective experience of it.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 11:49

Penggwn try and think about it a bit like when con artists scam confused old people out of thousands for paving their drive or something. Ok, ultimately it was the old person's choice to pay astronomically over the market rate for the service, but that was because they had been cynically manipulated by someone who was aware of all their weaknesses and deliberately exploiting them. Would you still say "well, free choice" or would you want such practices regulated to some degree?

The average person has very little understanding of the strategies advertising uses for manipulating our desires and undermining our free choice. When you are at a disadvantage like that, you are vulnerable, and need protecting, whether you know you are at that disadvantage or not - indeed especially if you don't know it.

PersianCatLady · 04/08/2018 11:50

I FF my son 18 years ago and if I ever had another baby I would FF then as well.

I know that there is a minuscule benefit to BF but I do not believe that in a developed country like the UK, where we have clean water and electricity, I do not believe that the difference matters.

The only way in which the benefits of BF could be ascertained for certain and all other factors ruled out would be to take thousands of sets of twins and to have one of them BF and one of them FF.

These twins would then need to be followed and monitored for their entire lives to see the effect that either BF or FF had on their health.

For ethical reasons, no trial like this will ever happen.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 11:51

Ennirem

Women of childbearing age aren't "confused old people". The only thing I can imagine you are implying is that we are all idiots and need the government (and well-meaning people like your good self, who are clearly possessed of far greater acumen) to make our choices for us.

thereareflowersinmygarden · 04/08/2018 11:57

@Pengggwn

Confused old people aren't confused old people.

Advertising is done for a very good reason and everyone, even brain surgeons who do rocket science on the side, are influenced by it.

Have you heard of Cambridge Analytica? They're one of the reasons Trump won. How? Advertising.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 11:58

Confused old people aren't confused old people.

What are they?

I am not accepting of any argument that suggests I need to be infantilised. I am a grown woman, I am quite capable of seeing when someone is promoting a product to me and quite capable of deciding whether or not I want it.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 11:58

Penggwn

No, and the marketing departments of large corporations aren't Gary the Geezer with a twinkle in his eye and your silver spoons in his back pocket. The disparity between your average chancer and confused granny, and your average punter and the masses forces of advertising manipulation serving an industry worth millions, are about the same if not slightly more favourable to the Granny. Of course people witha proper appreciation of the mechanisms used and their consequences should have some sort of a brake on their use.

I take it you are one of those people who thinks you personally could go into the pub with Michel Barnier and sort out Brexit in an afternoon because it's the will of the people and therefore entirely straightforward, right?

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:01

Ennirem

No, not at all, Ennirem. I am a perfectly normal person with a perfectly usual capacity to make decisions. I accept that I am I influenced by advertising and I am happy with the degree of that. Far better I occasionally buy a bottle of perfume I don't need than that I wake up in your authoritarian nightmare, being "protected" from myself and my choices.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 12:02

So you're fine with being controlled as long as it's being done without your knowledge. Well they do say ignorance is bliss.

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:02

There IS a lot of infantalising of pregnant and new mothers, and I agree with pengggwn that’s it’s patronising.

We can support those who want to bf without treating women like they’re stupid.

ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:03

I am always amazed when people say they aren't influenced by marketing. If people weren't indluenced, businesses wouldn't spend mega bucks on it

This!! I know I am influenced by advertising! Which is why I try to avoid it.

And also agree with what ennirem is saying. Women are vulnerable when they are new mothers. Just watch some formula adverts on YouTube and listen to the language they use. I unknowingly signed up to receive marketing info from cow and gate (bounty woman who took my details after birth of ds) and on the day he turned 6 months, they sent me a letter with a money off coupon and lots of fluffy wording about how my 'miracle' will 'thrive'on follow on milk (or some such bollocks) is that really fair? When I was pregnant, before I researched the topic myself I used the following common phrases

"I will try to breastfeed but I know it might not work"

"I'll stop at 6 months - that's when you use follow on milk isn't it?"

And that I from never being around new mothers or children, ever. How did I get that idea??

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:05

Ennirem

Nobody is controlling me. Please, loosen your tin foil hat.

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:05

and on the day he turned 6 months, they sent me a letter with a money off coupon and lots of fluffy wording about how my 'miracle' will 'thrive'on follow on milk (or some such bollocks) is that really fair?

Do you have to buy it? If you’re happy bf, why would you even be tempted?

Adverts are bollocks.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 12:06

But Spock the advertising point has got nothing to do with new mothers - as a pp had said, research has shown that EVERYONE is highly susceptible. This isn't really in debate except by people who want to believe that neuroscience isn't a thing and they are 100% captain of their own fate! It's a comforting fsntasy, but it isn't true for anyone and new mothers are no exception.

Grandmaswagsbag · 04/08/2018 12:08

What I’ve noticed from perusing the websites of the formula giants is its all about undermining confidence, and I think this is the key to any products marketed at women. There’s a lot of mention of breastfeeding, infant feeding ‘helplines’ but a massive focus on feeding problems. So you go on Aptamil or sma websites and there’s a quizz, a bit like if you were buying shampoo. Do you have frizz/dry scalp? Does baby have colic/ reflux? Suspected CMPA (caused by our formula)? We have something to solve that for you!

It’s interesting that someone mentioned pseudo science earlier in relation to benefits of b/milk. This is probably the no. 1 problem with formula claims in the U.K. none of them are based on any true science and wouldn’t stand up to any sort of proper scientific scrutiny. A lot of these specialised milks are complete mumbo jumbo and families are being conned out of a lot of money.

There are several issues at play. I fully support women choosing how they feed but I don’t support the quality of product they are getting and the industry being left unregulated in the way it is. I don’t support women being undermined about everything from the off, be that through poor healthcare or shitty marketing and Bertrand is right. We all go into the newborn stage half expecting breastfeeding to fail, I certainly did!

New parents are going to be particularly susceptible to this insidious type of marketing that formula co’s go for, as we are particularly vulnerable at this time. I almost think this is far more effective for them than ‘obvious’ marketing.