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Original poster

To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

999 replies

CocoDeMoll · 02/08/2018 20:53

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys? Grin

OP posts:
ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:08

Adverts are bollocks

So cow and gate went to all that trouble for no reason? Companies spend all that money on adverts for fun?

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:08

How exactly can it make you buy a product you don’t want?

This reminds me of women who complain about “pressure” from women’s magazines - don’t buy them then! I’ve never felt pressured to be skinny or look a certain way because I don’t read that crap.

So, if you’re worried about being influenced, don’t sign up to cow and gates emails, surely?

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:09

So cow and gate went to all that trouble for no reason? Companies spend all that money on adverts for fun?

It’ll tempt people who are already unhappy with bf. If you aren’t unhappy why would it?

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:11

Ennirem

But you don't want to (aren't suggesting, at least) doing away with advertising altogether. Are you?

ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:12

How exactly can it make you buy a product you don’t want?

You're right - they don't force you. No advert forces you. They persuade you... that is the difference. Result is still the same - they make a sale and you believe you bought it of your own free will.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:12

ethelfleda

The way I look at it is that companies spend money trying to persuade me of the benefits of their products, and I either agree with them or I don't. If that weren't the case, I would be the proud owner of many an item or service I have dismissed without a second thought. Clearly the final say is mine.

ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:13

So, if you’re worried about being influenced, don’t sign up to cow and gates emails, surely?

I didn't knowingly. The bounty woman who takes your details after you've just given birth did that for me... but that's a whole other topic!

Advertising works. That is a fact.

ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:14

The way I look at it is that companies spend money trying to persuade me of the benefits of their products, and I either agree with them or I don't. If that weren't the case, I would be the proud owner of many an item or service I have dismissed without a second thought. Clearly the final say is mine

You are correct, of course. But I believe the formula industry is different in that it's success relies hugely on undermining the alternative. I can't think of another product that does that.

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:16

ethelfleda but if you were happy with bf then you wouldn’t be persuaded.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:16

ethelfleda

I don't recognise that claim to be true. Can you show me an example of a formula company undermining BF? And by that, I don't just mean marketing their own product.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 12:16

Penggwn, I'm for doing away with capitalism Grin - that would make advertising rather redundant. In the absence of the glorious revolution, I'm for advertising for all products being strictly controlled, limited to certain places and forced to be completely factual. Dull, I know, but such is life.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:17

Ennirem

Well, in the absence of the revolution, you will have to settle for women making their own choices.

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:17

I didn't knowingly. The bounty woman who takes your details after you've just given birth did that for me... but that's a whole other topic!

That’s unfair. Bounty staff are awful though.

ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:18

I’ve never felt pressured to be skinny or look a certain way because I don’t read that crap

Exactly, you admit that advertising in this instance does work and so you actively avoid it to avoid being influenced by it.

It's not so easy to avoid all kinds of advertising. Especially when you're a new mum and you're spending money left right and centre on baby products.

MrSpock · 04/08/2018 12:18

I’m with you on doing away with capitalism lol.

Grandmaswagsbag · 04/08/2018 12:19

But @Pengggwn do most people really look into claims made on the tin? How? How do they evaluate the data when most people are not scientists and it’s actually nit available becasue the companies have created it? If you’re bamboozled with scientific sounding info do you really question it? Someone on here once posted this link to a lecture about nutramigen. It’s a perfect example of how formula co’s operate with no scrutiny, if you have a spare 30 mins have a listen. We expect this kind of stuff from a company marketing shampoo, but infants nutrition is slightly more important than that.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRHoI1cMFM

BertrandRussell · 04/08/2018 12:19

Right. I am going to set out my position on the bf/ff issue and see what happens.

  1. I think people should have a perfectly free choice on how to feed their babies
  2. I think "I don't want to" is more than enough explanation for not bf. More than enough, actually.
  3. I think, because research shows it, that 90-95% of healthy women with healthy babies can bf.
  4. This means that some women who have come to the conclusion that they can't have been misinformed.
  5. Feeling that they can't bf makes some women very unhappy.
  6. We need to find a way of identifying the women and babies who can't- and hopefully remove any lingering regret and "what ifs"
  7. We then need to find a way of giving anyone in the other group who wants to bf but struggles the information and help they need to do it.
  8. We need to get to a position where nobody is told they can't when they actually can. A position where for the overwhelming majority of women how they feed their babies is a proper free choice. And the discussion should be about getting there. And, if you're struggling a few days in, a tin of formula with a cute sleepy bear on it, or a "go on, give him a bottle" siren call whether it's from your mother or a marketing ringer will be very tempting!
PersianCatLady · 04/08/2018 12:20

They persuade you... that is the difference. Result is still the same - they make a sale and you believe you bought it of your own free will
Nonsense.

There are loads of adverts on the TV and people don't get persuaded to buy everything.

If you are thinking of buying something and a particular brand is advertised then it may make you consider that brand.

Anybody that is so weak-willed that an advert can persuade them to buy something they don't need or want should not be left unsupervised with money.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 12:21

MrSpock I think ethelfleda is more concerned with the impact of the advertising on women before they make their feeding choice rather than after. So if a woman wants to bf but spends her pregnancy being targeted with messages about "moving on", and peppered with the implication breastfeeding is rarely successful or sufficient, she isn't likely to meet any of the (,usually short lived) challenges with sangfroid, but to think ",oh Christ it's all going wrong just like everyone said it would, and what's the point when I probably need to our them on follow on formula anyway once they're 6 months / I go back to work". It's about the ground prepared.

ethelfleda · 04/08/2018 12:23

That’s unfair. Bounty staff are awful though

Complete agree!
And I totally understand what you are saying about me being happy with breastfeeding and so carrying on. But one reason why I was happy with it is because I knew it is still tailor made for DS, even after the magic 6 month mark. How many women know this?

I don't recognise that claim to be true. Can you show me an example of a formula company undermining BF? And by that, I don't just mean marketing their own product

Ok - this is my belief. It is subtle - but it's there. The letter I received focused solely on vitamin D content and iron content. Two things that are known to be very low on breast milk. Only bf babies need a vit d supplement.
And then there is the concept of follow on milk in itself. I assumed that was what I was supposed to do when DS turned 6 months. Where did I get that idea from?

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 12:23

I have no problem with women making free choices. All my campaigning and advocacy is centred around improving the context within which we make our choices, so they are fewer and better informed. If that has the happy consequence of more women breastfeeding, I won't be sorry; but the important thing is that women aren't being bullied and manipulated and let down and underinformed.

Ennirem · 04/08/2018 12:24

*freer, not fewer!!!

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:24

Grandmaswagsbag

No, I trust that the product is regulated accordingly to the same advertising standards and product safety laws that regulate the food I eat myself. I don't do tests on cans of soup. I don't weigh my meat when I get it home. I don't subject the olive oil to a chromatography exam before I dispense it on to my food. Yes, there is a degree of trust there, but that is a necessity of modern life. If I were to assume everyone was lying to me, I would be a very unhappy and paranoid person indeed.

I use the normal amount of critical thought when buying food, baby food, clothing etc. There is nothing wrong with doing so.

PersianCatLady · 04/08/2018 12:24

It’s a perfect example of how formula co’s operate with no scrutiny, if you have a spare 30 mins have a listen
Your video states that formula milk manufacturer should include a list of ingredients on the packaging making it sound as if they don't already.

In the UK, this is a legal requirement.

Your video is very USA based so I am not sure if it is very useful here in the UK.

Pengggwn · 04/08/2018 12:25

ethelfleda

Those are examples of a company promoting the benefits of their product. That doesn't undermine breastfeeding.