To believe that formula companies have PR agents working the BF/FF threads on here?

[CocoDeMoll]

They are a multi million pound set of companies that are invested in keeping Britain’s low breastfeeding rates down and keeping their profit margins up.

Any positives about breastfeeding seem to be shot down in flames on here.

So much pro formula and anti breastfeeding rhetoric.

They can easily afford to and have the best at the jobs be it lawyers, pr teams or spin doctors on their sides and they’re not exactly renounced for their ethics are they (nestle?!?!).

Or am I just getting a bit tied up in conspiracy therorys?

There are plenty of benefits of breastmilk. Its the natural food source for your baby. Its adjusts to your baby needs. The milk has evolved over time. It has antibodies. I fed all my babys with my milk and did not find it at all painful, even in the early days. It was a breeze. However i am pro choice but please dont try and make out that FF is just as good as breastmilk because that is rubbish.

spreading to me it is a feminist issue, because to get breastfeeding rates up, it is women who have to do it. Women who, after 9 months of pregnancy and giving birth, have to give over their body yet again to breastfeed.

This is all fine if the woman wishes to do so, and there are women who wish to do so who need better support.

But to me it is a big feminist issue to support those who choose not to breastfeed, either at the start, or when they find it too difficult.

You weren’t having a go at FF mothers I realise, but obviously the premise of your post is the fewer women who do what they do, the better.

That article is one person’s take. I truly believe the sibling study in America showing little difference in outcomes between FF and BF siblings is very persuasive because most of the evidence of BF benefits do no account for other factors.

Pengggwn but in Scandinavia there's not (from what I've heard) more pressure on women, it's just that bf is the norm in a way it's not here. Surely that's good?

There are plenty of benefits of breastmilk. Its the natural food source for your baby. Its adjusts to your baby needs. The milk has evolved over time. It has antibodies. I fed all my babys with my milk and did not find it at all painful, even in the early days. It was a breeze. However i am pro choice but please dont try and make out that FF is just as good as breastmilk because that is rubbish.

I accept that there is a marginal benefit. I don't accept that there is any significant benefit.

For example, "the milk has evolved over time": and?

"It's the natural food source for your baby": and?

Those aren't "benefits" as such. How does it "benefit" the child in any lasting way? I'm not bothered whether something is "natural" unless it can be shown to be manifestly better.

spreadingchestnuttree

Why is it good? Sorry, I am not following.

I get the impression that healthy eating messages, anti-smoking messages, etc aren't taken personally in the same way as pro-bf messages. And no, of course I'm not saying ff equates to smoking! But they're all public health messages, yet not all taken so personally.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4077166/

Link to the study I mentioned above. I think it is powerful evidence that breastfeeding is only marginally better. I agree with @pengggwn.

hundreds of thousands of infants die every year throughout the world as a direct result of being ff. I would very much compare it to smoking. The same individual rights, parents inflicting their choice on their children and public health impacts apply.

spreadingchestnuttree

That's because women are expected to subordinate themselves to their children for the most marginal of gains, isn't it? Smoking causes cancer; as a public health message, "stop smoking, it'll kill you" makes perfect sense. "Breast feed, it's been shown to be ever-so-slightly-better and if you don't you're a bad mum" is a more emotive message.

A different article which isn't just one person's opinion: www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/more-breastfeeding-would-save-nhs-millions/

BF decreases the risk of various health problems for babies and women. That's why (IMO) it would be good to increase bf rates.

Of course.

And mumsnet censors posting on formula by banning those who are openly critical of the product and the companies which sell it.

hundreds of thousands of infants die every year throughout the world as a direct result of being ff.

Erm... I am not an expert but isn't that...utter balls? Proof, please?

@arewehomeyet

Source?

I acknowledge there is a problem is developing nations when mothers are encouraged to FF and then can’t afford it.

I assume you don’t think babies die in this country as a direct result of being FF.

So do you think women in Scandinavia are more "subordinated" than in the UK then?

I don't want women to feel guilty about their choices. And I don't want pressure put on women. But I would like a society that is more encouraging and supportive of bf so that bf rates could improve. Not an easy thing to achieve though.

Meh I’m over 40 years old, have a degree, many professional qualifications, am a healthy weight, good skin, my last over 40 check showed I was in excellent overall condition etc etc....and I was FF. DH is the same.

Parenting is a heptathlon not a sprint. It’s not just what you feed the baby in the first six months, it’s a combination of factors. Don’t congratulate yourselves on your excellent overall parenting until your kids reach at least 21. I’ve seen smug parents berating others for their choices when they’ve got two under 5s. How are they so certain they’ve made all the right decisions? BF is one thing for small percentage of their lives, what about everything else?

@spreadingchestnuttree

I know the NHS line is that “breast is best” etc but that is based on research which doesn’t account for selection into breastfeeding eg breastfeeding mothers are more likely to be of higher socio-economic status, which will affect the better outcomes breastfed children seem to have. The study I linked to attempts to deal with this issue by looking at siblings, so of the same socio-economic status, and other external factors.

Basically, there is correlation between bf and good outcomes but not necessarily causation.

Increasing bf rates is good insofar as it means women who want to are supported to do so. Trying to increase bf rates beyond the number of women who actually want to do it is hugely problematic and as I said before, in my opinion a big feminist issue.

spreadingchestnuttree

Actually, yes, I do. Nordic/Scandi society is more child-led than British society on the whole, so BF is basically an expectation.

It was published in the Lancet recently. Sorry can't link atm. 800 000 deaths per year.

@mctufty these stats are commonly dismissed as only applying to third world countries (although I don't understand why- all babies are equally important). But FF directly leads to double the risk of infant death in America too.

I just think if it was terrorists killing 800 000 babiies a year it would be world war 3. But formula companies- nothing :(

Arewehomeyet

When I finished BF I used formula. My child didn't die. What am I missing?

@arewehomeyet

If you are able to point me to a study showing that formula is directly killing lots of babies in this country I am very willing to listen but I have researched this issue and genuinely never come across any such suggestion.

I assume you are not actually asking me to explain this to you!

Thanks Alwyn. I'm clearly not getting myself across as well as I'd like given the personal attacks I'm being subjected to, but I'm please it's making a bit of sense to someone!

I’ve been surprised at how often the “in developed countries formula is as good as breastmilk” line is trotted out on MN.

And if any mum posts here having trouble with breastfeeding the responses are 99% “happy mum happy baby just give formula.”

Also noticed that sooooo many MN users claim to have had no milk supply when medical estimates are that this affects around 5% of mothers.

So yes I have thought about whether these are all genuine posters vs staff at Danone marketing.

Here's an article about the Lancet article mentioned:

amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jan/28/breastfeeding-could-prevent-800000-child-deaths-lancet-says