To be unsurprised that Corbyn is still being called anti-semitic?

[crunchymint]

Corbyn has been quite happy over the years to work with those who are clearly anti-Semitic. And he continues to do so. Whilst at the same time saying that he condemns all forms of racism, recently changed to say he condemns anti semitism. Does he not realise yet that people judge him by his actions, not his broad statements which are pretty meaningless? And until he clearly shows in his actions that he condemns anti semitism, these allegations will continue?

The big problem I see is if you and others won't vote Labour, then people will be left with years of Tory rule. So education, health and social care all get squeezed. The vulnerable get worst off and food banks grow.

If I vote communist Labour. I vote for middle-aged, middle-class, male supremecy.

The communist labour manifesto is limited in help for the most vulnerable.

Owen Jones tweeted that communist Labour is trolling women. Many of those at the top of communist Labour appear to use 1984 as a life guide, Jones even has it referenced in his Twitter handle. They love capitalism, read some of the interviews by Ash for starters.

I understand that communists deserve an opinion, I don't had to vote for communist Labour.

I am not a "usefull idiot" thank you.

I am not a Jew, neither are my children, they have several generations back Jewish ancestry and I feel empathy for the Jewish community.

The black issue is too small an issue for me to worry about.

Can you imagine if someone replaced Jewish with the above ^. There would be absolute outrage and howls or racism etc.

The form of communism that is rising to prominence within Labour is not the form that assumes workers will lead revolution, it's even more misguided than that. This form seeks to push Capitalism to its limits (left accelerationism see Paul Mason, Ash Sarkar, Owen Jones) but believe then that its collapse and the resurgence of communism will be led by a digital urban elite! The idea is that capitalism will collapse and be replaced by a post-scarcity economy where machines will do all the work, and people can sit back and live in luxury - hence luxury communism. It's mainly espoused via Novara Media. Below is just one of many articles discussing this. Those who are looking for Labour to support the working class, should be aware they have no role in this nor do the unions. It seems that the current state of the party is a hotbed of endless fracturing and factionalism, if Corbyn can't get the party in order over anti-Semitism how will he hold it together if in power and faced by these different interest groups seeking to work through him? It's fascinating that so many of the 'defend Corbyn at all costs' posters don't even appear to be up to date with what's happening in the party. Or what's happened in the past. And for those valorising the role of unions in making the world better for women, I think that the women's movement and the pressure it exerted might have had a role in that!

"There are effectively two minority intellectual forces that form opposite poles in the argument over the future direction of the party.
The first and dominant force is a counter-cultural left associated with Momentum and the World Transformed and which has gathered to itself a diverse mix of baby boomer libertarian socialists, ex-Eurocommunists, accelerationist theorists, and younger generations of identity liberals, feminists, and anti-colonialists. It is an alliance of the formerly exiled and the newly awakened left, and its progressive socialism is trying to shape a distinctive Corbynism for the long term.
The Corbynistas influenced by the ideas of accelerationism have larger ambitions than Labours conventional manifesto policies. They argue for a reinterpretation of Marx’s theory of historical materialism.....Instead of class struggle driving the course of history the motor of change is technology. This theory of post-capitalism politics is about unleashing the boundless productive forces of capitalism in order to accelerate technological transformation and so achieve communism. The working class no longer has a historical role. The facilitators of this promethean politics will be the younger generations of digitally connected graduates."
www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/09/labour-must-choose-between-two-fundamentally-different-understandings

The Jewish issue is too small an issue for me to worry about.

That smacks of 'Jews know your place'

Swap that for any other minority and there would rightly be uproar.

it's like you have something to lose.

What exactly do you mean by that statement?!

Seasideride
I am in no party, the RMT was thrown out of Labour under Blair.

Look someone up/down thread, said Labour was less anti semetic then the general population and the Tory party
Baroness Warsi says the Tory party are anti Islam, the right wing have always disliked Jews, Muslims and any non white person.

So if we accept, those facts, me voting for Labour is surely the least anti-semetic, non Muslim bashing I can do. So what should I do, vote for a party I don't approve of their policies, and are more anti-semstic and racist? OR WHAT

Please don't say don't vote, I have always voted, in every election, 100 years women couldn't vote, less then 200 years ago neither could I, that's idea is a non starter. Also if you don't vote you have right to complain when it goes wrong.

Like I said, to me personally Labour was the best bet last election. Next one it might be Green or Lib Dem. I vote on policies not party lines.
By the way more people voted labour last election then apart from the 1997 landslide.

I find several problems with Labour, the issue about anti-Semitism and the inability to deal with it is very worrying, as is the inability to be coherent re: the EU or to stand up for a better Brexit deal. The lack of support for women's rights and in some cases actually taking back policies that were put in place to support women. The fact that the party is so riven with factions it's not clear what it actually stands for: McDonnell cites Marx/Trotsky/Owen Jones et al Luxury Communism and left accelerationism/Corbyn used to be social democrat but he's so guarded in his statements who knows what he stands for now OR stood for in the past. The hounding of Jewish MPs, the appalling behaviour towards more moderate Labour MPs, the rise of support for identity politics and illiberal attitudes. The Independent article on the behaviour of Momentum in Barnet is an illustration of how out of control that group is...

What does a vote for Corbyn's Labour even mean any more?

Last thought
Didn't Sajid Javed have to retract a tweet, which claim Corbyn was anti-semetic, and admit he wasn't really.
If that's the case you are been unreasonable all of you, unless our Home Secretary is now a liar too

user1471 - no, he retracted a tweet saying JC was a holocaust denier - a bit different.

Didn't Sajid Javed have to retract a tweet, which claim Corbyn was anti-semetic, and admit he wasn't really.

No I believe it was to do with alleged Holocaust denial and the person's tweet that he was responding to, cowardly deleted the tweet so it made it into something it wasn't, but keep digging.

You are also assuming everyone is a Javid fan and Tory. You are are wrong.

The Jewish issue is too small an issue for me to worry about

Wow just wow! Could have been said by a middle class middle aged German woman in 1938.

Maybe yvette... Maybe but for me I'd run a mile from keir too.

Are they wilfully destroying it for a the working class?
Maybe they think they are... It's just egoism.

By the way more people voted labour last election then apart from the 1997 landslide

From 1997-2015 there were three main parties all with decent leaders.

The last election was a two-horse race.

And Labour still lost.

And Crunchy I agree it's like the 80s all over again. The situation persisted until a strong leader i.e. Blair (whatever we think of his subsequent record) literally forced people into line - know several people who received personal summons/letters for going outside the party line. Corbyn seems incapable of doing this, so it's back to infighting. It's all very well people like McDonnell bemoaning the situation, the point is to deal with it. If a newspaper can find out what's been happening in Momentum Barnet why can't the party monitor the activities of its own groupings? Either it's not a priority or the leadership is too weak. I don't see another option.

So OP whether Corbyn is actively anti-Semitic or not, the point is he has allowed anti-Semitism to flourish. If he hasn't allowed it but is incapable of dealing with it then that's no better. It seems that anti-Semitism is fast becoming the Labour Party's preferred form of institutional racism.

Agree Dottie. And any effective Labour leader has to understand that the answer to negative stories in the media is not simply to shout press bias, even if this is true. Blair and his advisers knew how to use the media, Corbyn just avoids it.
Plus parties can now use social media which can have a massive influence on elections.

crunchy

Momentum now taking over labour have never been interested in power. Neither had Corbyn they are serial protestors. Power would mean responsibility and they don’t want, need or seek that. That’s why Corbyn is there. He’s unelectable.

It’s the repetition of the 80s all over again.

I cannot vote momentum because they are not labour. Labour is dead at the moment. even though I see the damage the Tories are doing. I cannot vote for a racist, mysogynistic front bench. I cannot conceive their economic policies, the countrys would collapse and Dianne Abbott as home sec. Jesus H Christ can you imagine.

I seriously think some back bench labour MPs should start a ‘new labour’ party, not that name, but they are literally too scared I think.

😱😱😱 From the that article.. The over representation of Jews in capital Upper class 😱😱

I can't get my head round it.

This is why I strongly dislike, passionately dislike extreme views.
Extreme left and extreme right meet down the middle. Both vicious nasty evil fuckers.

He seems like an enabler (to be charitable)... So no, I'm not surprised.

I would also like to mention that criticising Israel is not the same as being anti-Zionist (in the way most people seem to currently use and define the term)...

Criticising Israel and and the politics of Israel is not the same as opposing Israel's right to exist / exist as a sovereign state...

Bluntly there are under 300,000 Jews in the UK and pissing them off is much less important than pissing off other groups. In a nutshell

I am Jewish. I am also a member of the Labour Party.

I have experienced antisemitism from those on the left, right, and in-between. Most of it has been from those who would align with the right.

In recent months, I have seen an increase of AS from fellow Labour voters online, and most of this is on Twitter. It's been disappointing to see. Even more disappointing, is seeing other Labour voters, who may not have said anything AS themselves, but deny it's going on.

However, despite all that, I do not believe Corbyn himself is AS. I certainly did not support the united attackon Corbyn, by the three Jewish papers in the UK. If they think he is the biggest threat, they need to take a long, hard look at the right, and Boris Johnson hanging out Steve Bannon.

Furthermore, I've found in the last couple of weeks, a new kind of hatred, which is abuse from other Jews. Jews who tell me, if I still support Corbyn, I am not a proper Jew. The right-wing media smear campaign is doing a great job, of pitting Jews again Jews, they must be having a field day.

Aargh, that made no sense.

....not classify its Palastinian population as second class citizens....

Maria I agree with part of your sentence but it still blurs the line. Making clear points about the policies of the Israeli government and being clear that is what is being done is not necessarily anti-Semitic - although the tone and content of what is being said can make it so. Criticizing Israel per se is a problem, Israel has a number of different political groups and factions like any other country, and a number of citizens who agree/disagree/partially agree/partially disagree with its government and policies. So a blanket criticism of Israel is at best xenophobic and sweeping and often anti-Semitic.

Extreme left and extreme right meet down the middle. Both vicious nasty evil fuckers.

Always been the case