Children's weight, table manners - we seem to be going backwards?

[Gromance02]

I am happy to be told YABU but with all of the research and education, we have record levels of childhood obesity, children can't use a knife and fork, don't know how to behave in restaurants etc. What is going on? I am early 40's but remember only one child being anything other than normal weight in the whole of first school, my family had all meals including breakfast together at the table. Where has the UK gone wrong?

Women can now choose to work, can work full time, part time, choose not to work etc. I wouldn't call it sad.

We can’t though, because most of us need to work to support ourselves, regardless of what we want to do. I agree the option should be there but wages should’ve risen in line with the cost of living

@hercules for real? Many women were forced to give up their jobs when they married. It is still fairly common to have a SAHP although not asuch given the rise in the cost of living.

@Blaablaablaa
But financial factors can mean that many people don't have a real choice as they need to work in order to pay their bills. Just look at the number of posters on this thread that have said they would work less hours if it was financially viable. They aren't actively choosing to work FT at all.

Whilst the more traditional model of one parent working FT and the other being a SAHP or working PT might not have been great for everyone, there are definite flaws in the both parents working FT model too.

No, it's not true. 11 year olds walk alone to school as standard. Children over 8 play locally, children over 11 have the run of our town. Saying only over 13s can be out alone is hyperboly and nonsense.

I think both parents working can have a double whammy effect on children's weight as there is less time to prepare food from scratch and less time to walk to and from school or go to the park after school.

It is the fault of society imo - everything has to be rushed, activities have to be purposeful.

I felt really judged by HV because my babies were "only" on the 25th centile - you need to get more milk in them! Then, all of a sudden, aged 3, they are expected to be slim and my 25th centile children are aspirational. We have deeply ingrained, unhealthy attitudes to food.

Is there a correlation betweem obesity and table manners? Do all fat kids eat with their knives and forks in the wrong hands? Do all thin kids know which is the soup spoon?
Obesity is caused by national government policy, which means that you can buy a chocolate bar for 40p and an apple for a pound. Mass produced food is poor quality, calorie dense and lacking in nutrients. But its cheap. The government could cure obesity by taxing processed foods and subsidising natural foods.
Then everyone would the fit and healthy. Even the kids who don't know how to use a napkin or pass the gravy.

Nowadays, you can't let your children go out alone until they are at least 13.

Eh? Where on earth do you live? Kids here walk to/from school alone from about nine years old. I often see kids walking to the park or in Tesco with their pocket money at similar ages too. The only time they seem to be accompanied by parents is when they need a lift somewhere - either to an after school activity or an appointment, or to go somewhere that's too far to walk.

I certainly walked into town with friends about 9/10 years old and that was in the late nineties.

But women do have so much more choice that just a few decades ago. People might not be able to get 100% exactly the situation they want but there is still a much larger degree of choice . We are now in a situation where women are no longer required to give up work once married. I can't bring myself to call that sad.

I will never judge someone for the choices they make even if they are different to the ones I have made. Calling one set of circumstances 'sad' really pisses me off. It implies that choices I've made are somehow inferior to those made by others. I've lost count the amount of times I've been told how 'sad' it is that I have to work full time.... how it's 'such a shame'

It's not sad or a shame. Please avoid using such emotionally loaded language when describing another person's choices. It sounds judgemental.

If there's a downside I'm yet to discover it.

hazell42 Don't be ridiculous. You can't blame the government for the food that parents feed their children.

Snacking starts in the buggy these days. It's unusual to see a child in a buggy without a screen, drink or snack.

Blaablaablaa only if you’re rich. Otherwise it’s difficult!

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with women working. I think it’s a shame both parents often have to work rather than choosing to.

Children help themselves to food and snacks and have lots of drinks that are high in calories.
Portion sizes are bigger nowadays.
Food is relatively cheap.

Yes when I was a kid food was more expensive in real terms and we were not allowed to help ourselves to food. These days that would be seen as tantamount to abuse

DH and I both work in emergency sectors, shift work means it’s rare we’re both home with our some at mealtimes.

It means there are lots of cheese sandwiches in bed after a 9:30pm pick up from nanny’s or an oven meal in front of the telly because we are physically too exhausted to stand in front of the oven or round the table.

We have family dinners where we can but life for all isn’t monday-Friday 9-5, white picket fence and £30,000. Each family life is difference, it doesn’t mean that these kids are disadvantaged.

@mrspock I'm not rich and neither are the other women I know who work full time (or close to it) but we still have a degree of choice in how we live our lives.

It's not as black and white as you're implying. Yes some women are working full time when they'd prefer not to but just as many are choosing to work because they love their jobs. Then there are various degrees in between.

Emotionallly loaded language makes you sound judgemental

In the 70s about a third of mothers worked.

But you can blame the government for making it cheaper to buy food that has been processed than the fresh ingredients to make it. I work with very poor families who want to feed their families well, but they can't afford to buy fresh food and vegetables. Its not that they are lazy, they don't have the spare cash to buy it. That is a government level decision.
If you walk into one of those freezer shops - farm foods, iceland etc - you can buy a trolley full of pizza, nuggets and sausages for £50 that will feed your family for a week. But it has virtually NO nutritional value at all. Try going into a supermarket and buying the ingredients to make the same dishes at home, and it would cost much more.
This is why people eat rubbish. I have worked on projects where food was grown and sold cheaply to families in need and they all went home and cooked proper food. Food production companies exert massive pressure on governments - look at how long it has taken the government to institute their sugar tax, and just how diluted it has become, to the point where it will not have any effect.
Obesity is a major problem. Its not just down to parents to sort it

When I was born in 1981, my mum had to give up her job. There was no maternity leave, you just left. She did work again as I got older as she was a single parent by then but she worked part time and on the days she worked, I went to my grandparents after school and had tea at the table with them instead. There was no after school club etc.

Everyone is too busy these days. Its not just women. Everyone is having to work longer hours. There is also the expectation that children will go to clubs several evenings a week, parents expect to go to the gym or do a 'hobby' etc. It just means that there is less time to prepare food, but also to enjoy food and take the time to eat food. Younger children need to be hurried along with their food to get older one to club etc. And unfortunately the phone/ipad culture means children are given phones etc to entertain them at the table. I was expected to sit nicely and join in the conversation appropriately. (I am guilty of these things myself btw, I'm not preaching by any means).

Interestingly enough, my MIL always prides herself on the fact she took colouring books, pens, lego, etc wherever she went so DH and siblings were entertained. I suppose this is only similar to ipads now. DH and siblings are now appalling at small talk whereas I, who was expected to just sit at the table and chat, can now talk to anyone anywhere!

My parents both worked full time back in the 80s, as do me and my partner now. We also had, and still do, home cooked meals and none of us are obese. So, i dont think you can blame working parents. Easy access to high calorie food at every corner seems a more likely reason - snacks and treats are more common place now I think, and rather than a piece of fruit or a small biscuit, they seem to be big packets of crisps or so called 'healthy' flapjacks, smoothies and the like...

Blaablaablaa yes but the normal model suits you, so that’s fine. If you wanted to be a SAHM, it’s quite difficult to do so unless your partner has an extremely good job or you go without.

I’m not saying some people don’t love their jobs. I didn’t even say women. You’re making this an issue about women working and it isn’t, it’s a society issue with one wage not being enough to support a house.

Life today is totally different to when I grew up in the 60s.
I doubt anyone today could live the same way. It's a whole different culture.
I, and most of my friends had a parent, usually mum, at home but despite this, we could dress ourselves by age 3. We looked after younger siblings before we were ten years old.
We did household chores. We played out without adult supervision. It puzzles me that parents who work and have no time still do everything for their children up to a ridiculous age.
We only got presents or toys at birthday or Christmas.
We had to earn pocket money.
I'm sure if there had been as much choice back then and availability of junk food, then the situation 're obesity would have been the same then as it is now.
I've lived then and I live now....and I would choose then over now. However,...I experience now as an 'old person' so I have no clue how a child perceives life today.

@mrspock I took issue with you using the words 'sad' and 'its a shame' to describe a situation that many,many families are happy with.

However, I know not all are but lots are.

Having two working parents does not cause obesity and these children tend not to be disavantaged. Which is the point of the post.

Totally agree gottagetmoving. I've long thought that about parents doing more and more for their children. Again, though, I think a lot is down to everyone being busy and it being easier to just do things for children rather than give them chance to learn by doing it themselves e.g. getting dressed, using a knife and fork etc. I'm going beyond the food issue now but I think so much is down to time. This is not a dig at women working. I work. It is a dig at a society who has made it impossible for two people not to have to work long hours in order to make ends meet and be seen as successful at work.

Obesity is caused by national government policy

It really isn't. It's caused by over eating and under-exercising.

I fully agree that diets have changed a lot ( although not every family would have eaten together at a table in even in the 1980’s)

This in conjunction with lower levels of physical activity means that obesity has increased dramatically.

The food manufacturing industry and supermarkets have promoted unhealthier foods. It’s harder for people to keep track of the nutritional contents of what they are eating.

The invention of ‘low fat’ products which have hidden sugars has also been detrimental. Convenience foods, especially ready made sandwiches and meal deals are popular for people who work are bought as they are perceived to be healthy options, but are actually high in fats.

There is a lot of lunch box foods and snacks aimed at children too e.g fruit pouches and smoothies contain a lot of sugars.

Children used to move more. Free play outdoors has declined in favour of technology, structured clubs and hobbies.

Parents are more fearful of letting their children out to play.

People also walk less. Young people and children will often be driven even short distances instead of walking.