Children's weight, table manners - we seem to be going backwards?

[Gromance02]

I am happy to be told YABU but with all of the research and education, we have record levels of childhood obesity, children can't use a knife and fork, don't know how to behave in restaurants etc. What is going on? I am early 40's but remember only one child being anything other than normal weight in the whole of first school, my family had all meals including breakfast together at the table. Where has the UK gone wrong?

IMO, its all the snacking, eating while you wander about the shopping mall, the coffee shops, the fast sandwich type immediate gratification snacks, kebab, burger, pizza, the aisles aisles of industrial cakes you see see in the supermarket, crap coca cola/other, alcohol
In my childhood, we never ever ate or drank in the street, now you see vast majority getting off the train, or wandering around with a styrene cup in their hand.
No necessity whatsoever

It isn't just the children that are obese though, often it is the entire family. Look at what is in food these days, I don't mean sugar, I mean the fats and additives, lack of exercise, sitting around with screens, watching TV, driving everywhere.

Very few children were overweight at all, some were a bit more sturdy but none seriously or noticeably overweight when I was at school, both parents worked but ready meals and burgers were hardly ever seen and were a treat rather than part of life.

I was sent out to play, walked to the bus stop for school, or often had to walk to school if the bus was full, activities involved moving about, not sitting indoors with a screen. My mother cooked when she got home from work, it was plain cooking, didn't take all evening. My parents weren't fat. The pace of life was slower and we weren't bombarded with burgers and fried chicken, there was one phone in the house, no screens to be attached to.

These days people don't want to move about, they drive everywhere, buy ready meals and junk food.

oh & of course, Crisps,

when I was a child in the 80s

Iruka I think most of us are talking about a time before that! I was a child in the late 60s and 70s, in a working class area. I grew up on a council estate. Most mums either didn't work or only worked part time, babies and toddlers were not in childcare from 8 - 5 every day. The mums that I remember working either had other family to help out with the kids, or only a worked school hours.

Fast forward to the late 1990s and I became a single parent, working 8.30 - 5.30 and paying a fortune in childcare, and my situation was very common.

I cant remember much about my family life when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's as my parents were divorced and family life was pretty disfunctional. But, I do remember dinners at school. It was good traditional food,( the like of which I didn't get at home) so I loved it, and we had a strict dinner lady who taught the kids table manners and how to hold cutlery properly. There was only one child above the normal weight, how times have changed.

We had full-time working mothers, and snacked on sweet junk food all the time in the 80s and 90s. But we played outside all the time. Now its apparently "unsafe" and "neglectful" for a 10yo to play unsupervised. Let them have their phones and tablets instead.

I am a child of the 60's and 70's and most mums did work where I grew up, although not until their kids went to school as there was no paid childcare at all. My mum worked full time and had a long commute.

And the 70s was a time when there was lots of frozen junk food. But it was more expensive than making things yourself, so was usually seen as a treat.

But snacking was rare and kids were much more active. Also food was in real terms much more expensive. I agree though that generally food was plainer. No one expected individually tailored meals, and meals tended to either be plain meat or fish with potatoes and veg. Fairly easy to make.

I’m not casting judgement, it’s a society issue that’s made the cost of living so high that most people need two working parents. Two working parents isn't a problem, and a good role model that everyone needs to be able to earn a living if needs be. What is different is that increasingly you're either in a well paid salaried job where you're expected to work unpaid overtime, or you're in a poorly paid job with shift changes at short notice and effectively "on call" 24/7. Add to that increased commuting times (it's not uncommon for zero-hour minimum wage employees to commute for up to an hour each way). No wonder it's difficult to slot in family time.

robins Yes I remember table manners at school being taught and enforced. I suspect lots of parents would be in uproar if dinner ladies did this today.

I think healthier convenience food is expensive, you are paying a chef to make it for you really, but the crappier convenience food is cheaper, and that does play a part in what families eat.
Where people sit to eat affects manners, some children get their first exposure of sitting down communally for a meal when they start nursery or school. Generally that is 1/3 meals and they aren't going to learn table manners that way, how you hold your cutlery to eat at a table vs how you hold it to eat sat on the sofa is different. If 2/3 meals are spent on a sofa that is how you will learn to hold your cutlery and how you will hold it at school.
Children who have an adult sat with them to eat, whether at home or school are generally more pleasant eaters than those who don't. By pleasant I mean the lip smacking chewing and belching that would otherwise go on.

I also grew up in the 80s and all the mums I knew worked, certainly after the children were all in school. I think maybe there were more at home with preschool children as there weren’t as many nursery places.

FWIW I think drinks are a big part of the childhood obeisity problem. Some children drink sugary drinks all the time, and in large amounts. Lemonade used to be a treat once a week not a daily drink. Fruit juice used to be served occasionally in a small wine glass, now it’s by the half pint.

As kids we would be running around outside all the time too. We would cycle or walk for transport. Some still do and they are fine. Kids need lots of exercise.

incywincy A lot more food served to kids these days is effectively finger food that doesn't need cutlery or only a fork

@MereDintofPandiculation
Two parents working FT will realistically be out the house 08:00 - 18:00 if you factor in nursery/school drop off and pick up. I can't really see how you can argue that this in itself couldn't be an issue when it comes to mealtimes before even factoring in the other elements you mention regarding unpaid overtime and shifts.

You also don't need to work FT to be a good role model and just because someone isn't currently working FT doesn't mean that they wouldn't be able to support themselves if required.

Here we go. "Look at the fat kiddies, ooo poor justified OP, I'm only saying" etc - pointing at fatties dressed up as concern for children. This one is a bit special as it includes nostalgia for the 80s. Its a winner.

What about kids that in the OP's esteemed opinion are an acceptable weight? Do they all have napkins and address their parents as Mamma and Pappa at table?

I think that blaming working mums is unfair actually.

Easily available shit food, convenience/fast food is part of it, lack of outside space/free play that many of us had as children is a huge factor, inactivity, portion sizes in restaurants/takeaways are ridiculous, even plates are bigger than they used to be!

Blaming working mums seems a bit snide to me, and I’m a SAHM.

Yes plates are bigger than they used to be.

I’ll be flamed for this, but both parents working full time. It means you’re knackered, can’t cook properly, can’t all eat together and don’t have as much time with your kids.

Don't think this is necessarily true - I had full-time working parents growing up in the nineties and still ate normal home cooked meals at the table every evening!

Done right, cooking takes no longer during the week than bunging something in the oven, just about priorities and planning (obviously some exceptions to this and not all families work in the same way)

Oh AND its got blame for working parents. Missed that. So we have:

• fat kids (think of the kiddies type stuff)
• wasn't like this in my day (80s nostalgia)
• I blame the parents (always popular)
• I blame mothers going out to work - BINGO!!

Someone up thread even said its "society's fault". MN people we are indeed living the Daily Mail dream here.

I think MrSpock is right to a large extent.

Had my personal circumstances not changed, there is no way I’d have been working 43-50 hours a week for shit money from when my child was 18 months old. She’s 3 now and I really feel that she misses out on having me at home more, I feel spread too thinly.

Hello. I think that good table manners seem to have disappeared. On television even those who have a knife and fort don't use them correctly. I have often seem people holding both irons in one hand, pointing them at people and talking with a mouthful of food seems to be the norm.

When I was a child we were not told to leave an empty plate but always leave a little for "Mr. Manners".

fork!!

My experience of growing up in the 80's was that most families had a father that worked full time and the mother either didn't work or worked part-time at the most. Very average background btw

I was born in ‘69. Most of the mums I knew didn’t work, those that dud work didn’t work full time and were home for the end of school. My mum went to work part time once both I and DB were at secondary school.

I can only think of one school friend who was “fat”, her Dad was a widower and they did live on rubbish food.

My DCs always eat at the table with me and usually DH (he is usually home just after 5). Thinking about DDs friends (young adults now), none of them are “fat” but all their Mums also only worked part time....

Maybe OP has a point....

I was a little lardarse in 1983. We all ate at the table together and used a knife and fork

I liked this

Inactivity. Just look at the results being seen in the primary schools that do a mile a day.

I think most of us who only knew one or two overweight kids in the whole school, were children of the 70s or earlier.

I went to quite a large primary school in the 70s and I can only think of 2 kids in the whole school who were overweight. Interestingly (or maybe not), one of them lived above a sweet shop owned by her parents and brought sweets and fizzy drinks to school every day.

I also largely agree with MrSpock