Children's weight, table manners - we seem to be going backwards?

[Gromance02]

I am happy to be told YABU but with all of the research and education, we have record levels of childhood obesity, children can't use a knife and fork, don't know how to behave in restaurants etc. What is going on? I am early 40's but remember only one child being anything other than normal weight in the whole of first school, my family had all meals including breakfast together at the table. Where has the UK gone wrong?

It's not having one parent at home most of the time - two parents needing to get the kids out of the house for breakfast club rather than sitting down to bacon and egg on toast. It's a more developed economy - supermarkets full of ready meals and frozen crap instead of grocery shops. It's social media - people spending more time interacting online than they do in person.

just because someone isn't currently working FT doesn't mean that they wouldn't be able to support themselves if required. I didn't say that anywhere in the post you're responding to. I was looking at it the other way round. If your role model is that mum stays at home (and even today it's usually mum), it's that little bit more difficult to take educating yourself for a career seriously, especially if you're not naturally academically minded and can's see a high paid career at the end of it.

But then I was brought up in an age where many women of my mother's generation were expected to give up work on their first child (if not on marriage), and persuading girls that work wasn't simply a stop-gap was a bit of a problem. Something I hope has now changed.

I grew up in the 70’s and agree with most of the posts. Children were generally whippet thin and always outside whatever the weather. We walked to school, in my case 1.5 miles each way at primary and 2.5 miles each way with a train journey for secondary. Food choices were more limited and although I was a poor eater due to sensory issues, we didn’t snack.
Children today have a very different experience of childhood. It is a more complicated world and as a result to compare it to the past, is unfair on both generations.

I think time is a major issue, I am lucky to be able to work part time and we eat albeit a little later at 6pm once DH is Home at the table most evenings. I generally cook from scratch but I myself was not taught to cook from my own mother. In fact my dad did a lot of the cooking and it was all processed crap that we ate on the sofa! I used to crave dinners at my Granmas which were fresh and homemade and we all sat round the table and spoke and so I think that's why I try so hard to do this with my own children now! I remember when I had my second son the midwife commenting how nice it was that we were sat for lunch together one day and that she rarely sees it anymore! I am not the best cook but I've picked up a lot from recipe books and my MIL and although the children are still young 4-8 years I get them involved in cooking and trying new foods. I think if I worked full time I would not have the time to do this with the kids and they would miss out, table manners and using a knife and fork etc all comes from this really I guess and as for eating out I think less people can afford to eat out as much anymore and so the kids just aren't used to it and don't know the expectations.

People are used to eating far larger portions these days. I can't say my mother fed us super healthy food but there was not much of it. We shared a Fray Bentos pie between 4 of us, likewise the tin of salmon for Sunday tea. I'm sure we shared a can of tomato soup for lunch too, though I can't believe it would go 4 ways now. The Pyrex dinner service my mother used is still in her cupboard and the plates and bowls are really quite small compared with modern ones. We had no snacks, no crisps or biscuits between meals, there was one packet of sweets which came with the groceries on Friday which we shared between us, and a bottle of Lucozade. This was just how most of us ate then. Main meals were a roast on Sunday, cold meat on Monday, and maybe steamed fish, a corned beef pie (like a shepherds pie) and maybe some chops or a tiny piece of steak on other days. WE had real puddings. I got married at 28 and eating this size portions meant that I weighed 7st 7lb (only 5'3") without ever having to think about dieting.

It's always struck me as odd that it seems to be generally accepted that every occupation falls naturally into 37-hour-a-week chunks. And that if you don't do your 37 hours (plus overtime) you are incapable of doing a job requiring more skill/knowledge/overtime. Apart from those who desperately need two full time jobs to make ends meet, child rearing (or indeed life in general) could be more pleasant with, say, two parents both working 30 hours ... but of course once you go "part time" you can usually forget about further career ambitions.

I remember the Fray Bentos pie between 4!!

I'm a single parent, totally bloody knackered (a rare bad day for me today, I am grumpy). Both my dc are slim, and they are healthy as far as I can tell. They are polite, know how to behave at the table whether at home or at a restaurant etc etc.

I'll tell you something about being expected to finish your plate, and eating together. It doesn't always make for a healthy attitude to food, says the ex-bulimic with a crazy (but stay at home so that's ok) mother who would simultaneously criticise me for being fat and for not eating enough.

My point is, we are not going to hell in a handcart because of the lack of eating together and poor manners. You are having a general moan, which is fine, but don't dress it up as something more profound.

I think less people can afford to eat out as much anymore and so the kids just aren't used to it and don't know the expectations. When are you comparing this to? I was brought up in 50s, and eating out was a rare treat, perhaps a dozen times in my childhood. Although eating in relatives houses was weekly, and I suspect that contributed to learning etiquette.

Life has changed.

I employ quite a few younger people. We have had meetings around behaviour and how to change it

It's mainly around mobile phone use..... we now have to let them use it ( within reason)and charge it. It's too 'big' to fight against

We also have to treat them delicately when it comes to improving performance. They are not like us when we were young adults apparently, we have to go easy on them as some scientist/psychologist has done a study and we were tougher back then!!

So fat kids are rude? Have no table manners? Are physically behind?

So thin kids have great table manners and are perfectly capable of using a knife and fork (what ages are we talking here by the way?).

Fuck me that's some great fat-shaming OP. Any other failings we can attribute to being fat? Are fat kids louder? Do they scream at the park? Are fat kids worse at school?

Inactivity plays a huge part. From 11 to 17 I walked two miles a day just going to school and back. Now kids are driven to school, don't play outside and generally get little exercise. Table manners seem to have been ditched some time ago, it's rare to see people holding a knife and fork correctly.

Obesity full stop scares me, we are walking in to an epidemic and don't seem to be doing much about it.

I remember the Fray Bentos pie between 4

My DCs love Fray Bentos pies! I don’t often get them but when I do it is one pie between the four of us. Surely once you’ve added potatoes (Usually chips TBH) and veg that’s plenty of food!

It is INCREDIBLY difficult to hold down a full time job, run a house, and exercise your children for the required 3 or 4 hours a day.

Taking them to a 45 minute Judo class twice a week doesn't fucking cut it, much as we wish it did. Children need to RUN, for HOURS a day, or the are not burning what they eat.

We need to work so much to pay the rent or mortgage that our children are fed too many calories for their very low level of exercise they receive, because WE DON'T HAVE TIME to make it happen.

Kids should be outside, running, from 3.15 until 6, then out again after tea. They should be walking that 2 miles to school and 2 miles back. But they don't. There simply isn't time for one parent to be around and available for 4 hours a day to support continuous home exercise.

I am late 40s. Did paper round. Got my own breakfast. Lunch at school. Dinner round tv. It's not everyone. Would say I am used to sitting at table more now than as a child.

I remember the Fray Bentos pie between 4

I do too! I remember when I moved out I got myself one as a treat and didn’t have a tin opener so cut it open with a knife! It felt very indulgent having one all to myself

My kids would piss themselves laughing at the concept of a Fray Bentos pie being a treat 😂

I think StaySafe is spot on - people used to eat less, not necessarily more healthily - they just ate less food. The issue of getting children to clear their plates stems from a time when there was not much on their plates and not much between meals. Applying this in the all-you-can-eat buffet culture with a trip to the chicken shop after school is more problematic. I also believe we are walking into an obesity epidemic because we pussyfoot around saying that people are fat. I live in France and a doctor/midwife/paediatrician- any healthcare professional would have no hesitation in telling you that you or your children are too fat and society in general would not be slow to agree.

Not sure if this has already been mentioned. But children should also be taught how to spend their pocket/lunch money but this is hard to control as they can still go behind your back when they're out of sight and buy junk food. My own (15yr old) sister is a victim to this and she's a normal weight right now but is on the verge of being overweight because she spends her pocket money on junk (sweets mainly).
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Back in my school around 12yrs ago with parent consent children above a certain age where allowed to leave school premises at lunch time. I had packed lunch but would walk to the chippy shop every lunch time with my friend and the queue was massive with school children but the kids would be served in record time as the chippy shop was ready for them.

I agree with MrSpock on the first page of the thread. I don't work despite having the ne about to go to uni and one about to start year 9, I'm quite happy staying home in case anyone wonders.
When I did work full time yes we had more money but life was just chaotic. I do realise I'm in a fortunate position financially and it's a damn travesty that people are having to work themselves ragged in an attempt to make ends meet.

SluttyButty

I find working chaotic too. I’m hoping to give up soon, and be a full time SAHM. I notice a difference in my sons behaviour when I’m at home. He hates me working and definitely benefits from me being around to cook dinners, read to him, take him out etc.

I am sorry but unless you grew up a long time ago it's been perfectly normal for most families to have 2 working parents - it's not a new thing. My mum and dad both worked full time throughout my childhood and I was born in 1981.

This was the case for every family I knew.

Yes portion sizes in ready made meals, pizzas etc have increased significantly. I remember when pizzas first came out and they were pretty small compared to now. And yet most people did not have a whole one. This is about manufacturers trying to get people to spend more. And it increases the amount people eat.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3343129/Take-portion-sizes-1950s-beat-obesity-say-scientists-warn-portions-20-years-ballooned.html

Monday I remember loads of kids from my school going to the chippy at lunch time. I didn't as I got free school meals. But they were mainly pretty thin. Kids did not necessarily eat healthier, but they ate less and were more active.

With activity the big difference was that it was unsupervised. Kids would be told to go out and play. It was thought to be very good for kids to get lots of fresh air. It would be very time consuming for a parent to recreate that amount of supervised activity.

thatmust I was born in the 60's and every family we knew only had one working parent. Maybe the 60's is a long time ago to some.