Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

The presenter is soooo annoying I didn't watch.

"As an aside I am sure if new mums weren't booted out of hospital within hours of giving birth things may be a bit different."

Yes. This is so true. I think it may be one of the significant differentiating factors for the UK in terms of breastfeeding rates.

The stupidity around follow on milk is very tiring and thanks to this programme, it's getting worse.

Follow on milk will not harm your baby. In fact it provides twice as much iron as first milk during the time when babies have a very high demand for iron. Why people are now panicking about using follow on milk is beyond me. You get loyalty points for using it and it's cheaper. It's not a con, you aren't being ripped off. It might have been invented to get around formula advertising laws but that doesn't make it a bad product that you shouldn't use. It's fine.

Can everyone please calm down about follow on milk.

Buntyll no-one is saying it is bad for you or dangerous. Just that it is unnecessary, and invented purely so the companies can make a mockery of the advertising restrictions. These things are true, why are you so troubled by people discussing it? So you think there is no need to consider the ethics of the companies we support with our custom?

Mairy - stars are pretty consistent over about thirty years on this (the length of time uk has gathered BF data): the longer you are in hospital, the less likely you are to be BF by the time you get home.
Shorter stays of a few hours only = more BF
Maternity units are not good at sustaining BF.

It's more complex than cause and effect, though - longer stays are associated with problems with the baby or the mother's own health, which may both impact on BF.

Even so....keeping mothers on the maternity ward for longer would not help BF in any way.

But do those stats strip out women who are there because they are ill? What about stats from other countries? It's only anecdotal, but among people I know it's been the opposite save for those who experienced complications.

@Ennirem I dont really care what other people discuss but I do care when someone asks for help on which formula to choose and lots of people (many of whom who have never even FF) pile into the discussion saying it's a con! A rip off! And so on.

My baby was low on iron and I chose to put him on stage 2 milk because it was the best thing for him. It might be the best thing for other babies but mother are being bamboozled by people complaining about formula milk being advertised. I don't agree with people with an agenda trying to influence a mothers choice of which milk to feed her baby.

If someone's baby has a diagnosed health condition like anaemia and they're asking as idea on how to remedy it from randoms on the internet, rather than the HCP who diagnosed it, j would be very perplexed. In the majority of cases, the iron levels in first formula are perfectly adequate alongside complementary foods up to 12 months. I don't need to have formula fed personally to read the NHS guidelines

The stupidity around follow on milk is very tiring and thanks to this programme, it's getting worse. Follow on milk will not harm your baby.

No one's saying it's bad or harmful, just that it's a con, which it is.

I'm not sure why it's exempt from the laws around bf promotion, but I don't think it should be.

There are lots of ways of upping baby's iron levels from 6 months, through diet and supplements. There's no need to buy into a fairly cynical marketing strategy.

I'm not dissing formula companies btw. I work in marketing/advertising so I get it's their job to sell more stuff. But they shouldn't be surprised when consumers call them out on a blatant attempt to fill a 'need' that doesn't exist.

From a recent paper on breastfeeding cited in the Lancet:

“Human breastmilk is therefore not only a perfectly adapted nutritional supply for the infant, but probably the most specific personalised medicine that he or she is likely to receive, given at a time when gene expression is being fine-tuned for life. This is an opportunity for health imprinting that should not be missed.”

@LaurieMarlow it's exempt because at 6 months the baby is expected to be weaned and many women return to work.

@Ennirem so are you saying that by using formula we now support these companies in their alleged (as I haven't read the evidence around this) poor advertising practices world wide? If so, I'd love to know what people are supposed to do when they can't bf their baby (for what ever reason) - let them starve or support the 'demon' formula companies are the only two options I can see here and neither are particularly supportive stances to have about people who need to ff.

I would say brig your purchasing power to bear on the companies in question. Boycott to the companies if they are found to be complicit in shady practices; avoid the big brands if possible (I know some babies only manage with certain brands); campaign for formula to be made available on prescription as a generic medicine for a reasonable price, or at very least that the commercial product be subject to strict pricing control, to support other mums in your position without sufficient money to feed their baby formula without making some significant sacrifice like their own food budget or clothes for their older children; don't, as you have done here, defend the companies cynically undermining laws put in place not arbitrarily to hamper them but because they are proven to be irresponsible advertisers who are happy to endanger the health of women and babies to shift product. basically be a conscientious consumer of an essential product.

I'm a socialist, btw, and I don't believe any of the essentials of life should be subject to market forces,so this is part of a wider ideology on my part. You of course may not subscribe to any of it, it's just my opinion.

But I really don't think it's fair to say we can't talk about the follow on milk scam without "demonising" formula and formula feeding mums; all large, highly profitable industries should be accountable for their business practices and the consequences of those practices.

@Gizzymum there's a difference between buying formula from them and saying that you think their marketing practices are perfectly fine. It's a shame that at the moment there doesn't seem to be an ethical choice of formula.

Cyw2018
Your support sounds similar to mine (also in Wales). But it doesn't seem to be helping Welsh breastfeeding rates which are among the lowest in the UK. I think it's a cultural thing here.

‘As it is I didn't need it (I have a massive stash in the freezer which is now past the 6 month date, and it feels really sad to bin it...might give DD a milky bath!!), but it was there should I have had a C section, PPH or other unforeseen emergency that could have effected my supply.’

My milk didn’t come in until over a week after ds was born and even then it was very slow and couldn’t get anything hardly put despite lots of pumping (I blame this on having to be induced overdue.) It’s not always possible to build a supply up in freezer or what ever.

out*

Thank you so much @Ennirem, your post was so lovely to read (as I started my 6:30am pump pre DS waking up!) The sad thing is that I don't believe my MiL means to come across in that way, I think it's awkward for her (my SiL bf both of her children) and she doesn't know how to respond. She proclaims loudly to everyone when I've finished "Daisy's finished milking herself" and says that my pump sounds like a pig or me farting (every time(!)). The result is that I no longer feel comfortable to pump in front of them so take myself away to do it.

I think expressing is the best and worst of both feeding scenarios if that makes sense, but I am grateful that it's giving me the ability to still give my child milk from me. (It does however blow the bank, pump and associated paraphernalia for exclusive pumping isn't cheap!) My Christmas present from me to me last year was a pumping bra so I didn't have to continue holding it in place all the time 🙈😂

Haha @Ennirem, the magic did go quickly for me, but I do remember that sensation of feeling chuffed with myself if I managed to pump more than usual in one sitting in the early days! I'd say it's tolerable now but for some reason I'm the last few months I feel quite sick when I pump (worse as the day goes on) and at times it can initially be quite painful... but then I remember both of those happening when desperately trying to get DS to latch too, so might not be due to expressing!

@harrietm87 But their marketing practices in the UK are, as far as I'm aware, fine. All I see is the ads on tv which only, if anything, make me aware of their brand (I have never heard anything in their ads saying formula is better than breast etc).

As for @Ennirem suggestion of boycotting big brands, this would be difficult as, for example, only one or two do 'starter packs' which are ready made formula with pre sterilised teats. My local hospital will not allow sterilisation of bottles or storage of formula in fridges, so these starter packs are the only option if you want to ff from birth. To then switch a baby onto a different brand of formula is a pain in the bum as they may at first refuse (just when they need feeds the most) or may react to it. Plus smaller brands are typically more expensive.

I disagree with all formula being on prescription as in some cases it is a choice to use this rather than bf and I don't think it should be subsidised by the already stretched NHS. Perhaps an additional benefit available to those on low incomes in the UK, who have to use formula (signed off by eg a GP) , would be beneficial instead to help people continue to feed their baby when bf isn't working.

@ Gizzymum totally astounded that you claimto have no idea about global formula marketing. But formula co’s get away with lots in the U.K. too. The end consumer has no voice, and no public body seems to give a shit about putting what’s best for infants and families above profit (funny that). There is no independent body who regulates formula and examines their claims, despite thenfalsehood that formula is strictly regulated. It’s regulated in a sense that there are a list of ingredients that have to be there by law, but that’s about it. Ingredients are also bought open global market where ever is cheapest so the source changes regularly. Recent Aptamil changes? They changed the price and structure of the formula to 50/50 whey/casein, without telling parents. This goes against recommendations that infants have a whey rich formula for 1st year. It was left up to a charity to hound them for a data sheet about the new formula. Many of the specialised allergy formulas have literally no scientific evidence to back up claims, yet our NHS spends millions on them. Pricing of forumula is scandalous, it’s very cheap to produce, the profits go straight back into marleting the product not improving or researching. We all want fairer priced better formulas for infants, so as the actual buyer parents do have a responsibility to be the voice for your babies, the end consumer. Is it up to parents alone to change this stuff? No, changes need to happen at gov. Level, but money does talk. I know it’s hard as we all want to believe in the product we buy, especially when we have little consumer choice. But ultimately that’s how they get away with all the stuff they do, beacause there is little choice. ‘First steps nutrition trust’ is a great impartial U.K. charity that works to keep a bit of a check in what’s going on. If you’d like to look into global formula marketing more ‘baby milk action’ is the place. I do think parents have some responsibility to be aware.

Sorry for typos and x post with enniren

I have never heard anything in their ads saying formula is better than breast

That is beacause they are banned form saying it, but I bet you’ve heard ‘closer to breatmilk’ and ‘40 years of breastmilk research’. This is to make parents think that there is some similarities between the two when they are absolutely nothing alike. They also renamed the product ‘formula’ (used to be called breast milk substitute) so as to sound scientific. It’s just powdered milk in a tin with added nutrients. There’s no magic or much science going on there.

@Cyw2018
In terms of BFing support where I am: the hospital is signed up to the Baby Friendly Initiative:

No formula provided in hospital and staff not allowed to 'promote' it (in reality this meant they thought they couldn't even mention it). No support given to anyone ffing.
3 x antenatal classes, including one on BFing
Hospital staff and community midwives and HVs trained to support BFing (in practice I found this meant they'd all done basic training but couldn't support anything other than the basics)
Infant feeding team at the hospital who could snip tongue ties but only if you were EBF
Breastfeeding cafes at local children's centres weekly - in theory this was good but they all shut down for 2.5 weeks over Xmas (which meant we couldn't access them at a crucial time). One had proper lactation consultant, the others had peer supporters or children's centre staff who'd had basic training (when I went with a query to one I discovered I knew more than they did!).

So, it looks like there's a lot of support in my area but I discovered that a lot of the support only covered the very basics. There was also no support in my most local children's centre and they weren't always in the easiest places to access.

I have always thought that Aptimil are the worst for this, and I never used it as a result. But estimates say that a 'tiny minority' of between 1 and 5 percent of women (so a minimum of around 8k per year) don't produce enough milk to exclusively breastfeed so it is hardly surprising many MNETTERS have has this experience personally.

There is some seriously OTT shit on this thread. Hating women who want to ff so they can go out 2 weeks after birth... OK then . Wtaf does it have to do with you I imagine LO is well looked after by their father.

And in terms of fed is best..... I wonder where all the threads are with faces for the dc who are taken into care and not properly looked after - I've never actually seen one on MN. Why are people so invested in whether other women breastfeed it's just weird and a bit obsessive I think.

Women should be supported better after birth including with breastfeeding, I think everyone agrees with this. We need a culture change away from vile misogyny towards new mums which a lot of the views on this thread add to. Set women against each other, divide and conquer.