Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

And like an absolute pillock I just posted that on the wrong breastfeeding thread . Sorry all ignore.....

Rural south west. We have a BFH but at no point was breastfeeding pushed at us in anatenatal. I don’t recall them even mentioning it. It was more of a ‘however you want to feed we will support you’. I don’t think formula was provided as routine in hospital but why should it be really unless for medical needs? The nhs is cash strapped enough. I was in for a week and received excellent support from hospital. Inc.round the clock cup feeding until she latched. I didn’t come across any one readmitted for feeding issues but our hospital seemed pretty hot on not discharging until feeding is established. In the community we have a breastfeeding cafe in my town run by volunteers and a tounge tie specialist and lacto consultant comes once a month. I think we’re lucky, although services have been cut locally. However out in the villages there would be no support on the doorstep for women who don’t drive.

@bigmamapeach

That's all very nice but,

(I know more than most about human evolution btw)

We have far lower breastfeeding rates than other, westernised countries. I wasn't comparing us to sub-Saharan Africa.

Something is different in the UK, compared to Scandinavia or even the US.

‘Women should be supported better after birth including with breastfeeding, I think everyone agrees with this. We need a culture change away from vile misogyny towards new mums which a lot of the views on this thread add to. Set women against each other, divide and conquer’

This ^

I've never actually seen formula advertised?

I don't watch TV ads (either fast forward or wander off to make tea!) and haven't seen formula ads in any of the papers/magazines I read or on the tube/public transport (where I have seen ads for things like fertility treatment or children's vitamins).

Gizzymum so formula should be a choice available to all women... But only if they can afford it? Otherwise they should only get it if they CAN'T bf, and are signed off by a GP to say so?

Do you think other prescriptions should also be means tested? So if you're a rich diabetic, you shouldn't pay the prescription charge for insulin but the full market rate if you can afford it? Same for surgery?

I feel like there is little internal logic in your arguments, and that basically what you want is for formula to be available to you as a necessity, or a choice, but not to have to consider the environment in which that takes place, or to think about or make accommodation for other women with the same needs/wishes but without the resources. Basically you don't seem to care much if things are equal or ethical.

@Grandmaswagsbag
My problem with hospitals refusing to provide formula at all is
a) that they have to feed all their other patients, so newborns become the only ones excluded.
b) it means the staff have no clue what some babies are being fed
c) anyone admitted unexpectedly or who planned to EBF may well not have formula easily available to them. There are no shops near my local hospital and DH was having to catch the bus to visit - there is nowhere in the town centre (where bus starts from) to buy formula since the supermarket shut.

@RidingMyBike well where does all the profit go then? As a consumer I’d be extra worried about this and be wondering. All my hard earned cash funding marketing in the developing world? The U.K. isn’t the most rapidly expanding market for them atm, so perhaps they’re taking a break for a bit

Riding I agree, when we were in SCBU rushed in unexpectedly in an emergency the hospital provided formula which saved ds’s life as I wasn’t producing enough to pump anything out and ds didn’t have the energy to latch he was too poorly.

On our way out it would have been handy if we could have bought some at the hospital shop or something as we were very stressed and sleep deprived (no sleep at all)and I didn’t have any at home as wasn’t expecting to need it. I was so set on breastfeeding. We had to literally prime now some to our house. I did breastfeed after ds got stronger, my milk finally came in and I found my feet. Ds just needed the extra with him being poorly and it was on advice from the hospital.

But I’m guessing if mum is unable it b/feed or doesn’t want to to and there really is no way of her providing formula the hospital would have to provide it as clearly they couldn’t have babies starving on their ward. In the case of someone like me, who stayed in for babies health issues then my baby would be the patient, so would be fed formula if that was my choice. The problem with them providing formula as routine and convenience for parents is that you then get back to the murky world of companies having representation in hospital, as we know that once a parent starts with a formula they are unlikely to change brand, can you imagine how that would work ethically? Companies already lay on staff ‘training days’ for nhs workers as marketing ploys.

There should be neutral advice for bottle (how to make up formula correctly) and breast (proper training! there really is a woeful lack of knowledge, esp when it comes to tongue ties, silent reflux, and many more issues that can crop up but could be resolved in many cases if more HCPs actually knew what's what). The latter obviously only if the mum wants to continue, no agenda pushing.

There is definitely an anti-BF culture in this country, certainly when you're a few weeks in. I ended up being an "extended" BFer but had no firm plans either way while pregnant (had bought steriliser, bottles and ready mixed formula and thought I'd give BF a go).

Turns out ALL the female members of my extended family, including the ones who had BF (none for long I might add), started pushing bottles and dummies from about 2 weeks - apparently formula is some kind of magical panacea that will put paid to any "problematic" (ie normal) newborn behaviour. Luckily I had the internet and none of those aggressive people were too close by - otherwise I probably would have succumbed to their pressure, and that would have been a real shame. Not because of "evil" formula but because I would have been bullied and I've seen this happen to lots of other people.

Turns out my baby had silent reflux and a dairy allergy, so giving standard formula and then invariably a specialist formula would have added a lot of problems, which we were able to avoid mostly by cutting dairy from my diet and continuing for a long time.

No HCP had anything helpful to add either, I'd like to point out. Baby won't sleep, leave them to cry (no one was interested in her diet really, BF/FF was never questioned at checkups/weigh ins).

"Gizzymum

@harrietm87 But their marketing practices in the UK are, as far as I'm aware, fine. All I see is the ads on tv which only, if anything, make me aware of their brand (I have never heard anything in their ads saying formula is better than breast etc)."

Their marketing practices in the UK are within the words not the spirit of the law ad other posters have explained. But yes you do not see them actually stating formula is better than breast because they can't. I did post a link upthread regarding current practices in the Philippines and the Nestle scandal is also widely publicised. Have you had a read? What did you think?

Riding, television and online advertising is most widely used media by formula companies. I was actually approached for market research in the street by a formula company recently. The one that sticks in mind is the Aptamil ad showing what the children could grow up to be. I remember it because it was controversial- they showed the boy as a scientist and the girl as a ballerina

Sorry harrietm87, didn't mean to tag you again.

I live just outside Birmingham. In terms of support:
There was an NHS bf antenatal class...I wasn't easily able to make any of the dates and after going to the 'preparing for birth' one which was full of all sorts of rubbish I didn't go out of my way to try to find a way to go!
Was told whilst in hospital that a bf support worker would come and see me but no one turned up, had a few midwives come to see me and give me wildly differing advice.
There's one HV who specialises in bf but that's for a large area...I did speak to her on the phone once about DMER which I have but all she said was to switch to formula which I couldn't do as DS was not interested.
That's it! When DS was about 6 months I saw a leaflet for a bf support group so I have been going but it's more of a play group really and most of the HV hadn't heard of it when I asked.
One thing I find really frustrating is that you're told ideally to bf for a year...like that's perfectly normal and easy but absolutely no one tells you it might be difficult to stop...it's like they want you to bf leaving the hospital to make their figures look good and then you're on your own. I haven't been able to get any help at all for weaning an older baby off the breast or with some of the problems that come with bf older babies like insisting on feeding to sleep or comfort feeding for long periods in the night.

@mummabubs - you said you're feeling sick when you're pumping. Might it be that your metabolism kicks in and you're just very hungry? Sometimes I need a little carb snack along with a pint of water to pump or feed or I can feel a bit sick.

Detention49 Hope you never have a baby and ‘have no choice’ but to formula feed. What an ignorant unhelpful comment

You sound lovely detention. I'm sure your DC will grow up to be charming assets to the world

And under the heading "more heat than light" (and, not coincidentally, "more words than grammar) I give you Detention49.

Still breastfeeding my 18 month old, strong advocate for breastfeeding and vocally critical of the tactics of formula companies, and I am still sensitive enough to find your post incredibly offensive. Do bore off, or at least learn how to punctuate a sentence before you weigh in.

I'm in Manchester and support varies widely depending on which authority and hospital you are in. In Bury there is a weekly peer support group and I believe there is a lactation midwife and North Manchester hospital but I didn't see her. I did have a lovely 'old school' midwife though who was very supportive during the days. The midwife at night looked pretty newly qualified 9only one on shift) and didn't seem to have a clue - I asked her if my latch looked ok, because it was a bit tender and she just shrugged and said "I think so". I never used the peer support group as we took to it quickly so didn't need it so can't comment how good it is.

In Salford there's a breastfeeding support group on somewhere in the local authority everyday.

In Bolton there's one group I know of in the more affluent area and in Trafford there's one held weekly at Debenhams café in the Trafford centre, but that's it.

In all areas of Manchester, support you receive at the health visitor clinics varies wildly from HV to HV - I think this is often to do with their own experiences and values though.

There are several private lactation consultants, but this is a paid for service. You can also hire breast pumps from some of the hospitals, and the North West Milk bank will lend you a pump for free if you agree to pump for them.

Breast milk 7% sugar
Formula milk 8% sugar

So more but not full of it.

I have two children actually. Both breast fed till just over two. One born with tongue tie first born premature and born with hole in the heart I was only 18. It was not easy but I didnt give up the amount of times I was pressured by family and health professionals to switch was untrue as formula was marketed by them as some kind magic powder that would help my kids sleep better and gain weight when all along they was using the wrong chart in the red book. I spent time at LLL meetings as a 17 pregnant teen looked down on by middle class women, pumped when baby was in special care, dealt with mastitis, tongue tie, learnt how to latch, and actually sat down and fed my kids which they dont always explain to people that breastfed kids are fed on demand and sometimes during growth sperts they do that all day it is not that they dont get enough it is what they do as they are not dosed up with calories so need more regular feeding but people tell you oh just give baby a bottle. I think all you sensitive formula feeders are unhelpful as any criticism of formula is met with oh that is unhelpful well guess what formula may not be helpful thats why your rates of breastfeeding are so bad the love of formula is so strong here we can not say one bad word against it. Its like stoners who defend cannabis anything bad said about it makes them hostile.

‘I have two children actually. Both breast fed till just over two.’

What would you have done if you’re milk wasn’t in and you couldn’t express anything and your baby was too unwell to latch? Would fed be best then detention?

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