Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

@tiktok

I take your point; maybe I didn't put it very well, but I said 'think of' rather than 'have a quick look at', meaning to consider the people you know well as a whole - their lives, their health and happiness etc. I don't doubt that there are some health benefits to BFing over FFing - my query is as to the magnitude of the benefit.

To illustrate the point I'm trying to make, for comparison, most people would agree that, if possible, it's clearly better for children if they can have two happy, loving parents who live with them and look after them rather than just one; but do you markedly see the unalloyed success and happiness throughout the duration of the lives of everybody who grew up in a 'traditional' two-parent set-up as opposed to the utter lifelong failure and torment manifest in everybody who was brought up by a lone parent? I certainly don't.

My DM wasn’t much better who kept telling me ds seemed on the thin size and why didn’t I wean him (he was three months old at the time!) ds has always been tall and lean and is now to this day despite eating loads it’s his build. Any sleep problems he had she preached it’s because ‘mummy being cruel not giving you proper food!’

Tbh though I do get get confused by this shaming thing, especially for the people who do have to use formula and say it was not their choice.

I have to send my 1 year old to nursery. I know, full well, this is sub optimal for her care - the best care for children under 3 is one-to-one care from a single caregiver, they do not statistically benefit from the nursery setting until they are much older. But I have to send her, so she we have money so we can have a home and other nice things. I don't beat myself up for that - I advocate for a better society where people don't have to make the choice between a decent quality of life and being with their children. No doubt there are some militant SAHMs who think I am not trying hard enough or doing the best for my daughter. I know why I am where I am so I'm not bothered by their bullshit.

I don't insist the outcomes of such studies on optimal infant care be suppressed to soothe my feelings; I don't watch documentaries about barriers to SAHMotherhood and say that it's shaming me as a working mum; I don't go around saying "cared for is best", as if the only options are nursery or leaving our children by the side of the road, and that there is no hierarchy of quality.

So why all this frothing about breastfeeding particularly? As a lot of ff mums on here are at pains to point out, it is just one of many decisions we make for our children based on what we know to be best in general and on what we personally can manage. Why the urge to silence the evidence, and the experiences of the bf minority?

Because you are confident Emmiren. A lot of women have not been instilled with confidence and strength of convictionn.

I read a study where healthy eating from birth to 5 has a significant impact, i.e, 3 clear points ahead in intelligence testing against a largely junk food diet. Breast feeding shows approx 1 point lead. But we froth over the breast feeding thing more. I believe this is because it is a female issue. Women like to shame each other, compete for ‘better mother’ accolades and our bodies and what we do with them is under a great deal of social control.

Well that’s my theory anyway

Sorry ‘Ennirem’

I actually think it's just the have a baby and carry on culture that discourages breastfeeding.

My parents have been negative about my breastfeeding, but told me they watched the programme.

Personally you do what you think is best for your children. The facts are the facts. It's so normal to formula feed if should be normal to breastfeed.

I've made sacrifices to breastfeed and I think it's very worth it.

And actually when asked a few times at jabs etc if baby was breastfed then nurses seemed surprised.

The comparison with type 1 diabetes is false. Yes, there is a small proportion of women who can't breastfeed. The vast majority CAN....

How is the comparison false? The vast majority of people CAN produce insulin naturally, but the vast majority does not mean the same as everybody, and doesn't mean that we can or should simply dismiss the minority who physically CANNOT do something - however much support or encouragement they are given - as liars or attention-seekers.

Nobody would dream of brushing off a wheelchair user wanting to know why there's no access ramp to a public building by saying "Oh, the vast majority of people just use the steps without making a fuss" and then, when told what should be patently obvious, respond by telling them you truly understand that both of their legs have been amputated at the hip, so it isn't as easy for them as it could be, but they just need to keep persevering until they can walk.

Haha I am far from confident! I worry, myself, about the impact of every choice I make or can't make on my girl. I feel grievously inadequate to the task of motherhood often. But if I'm anxious, I research. I don't allow my anxiety to be dictated by strangers whose qualifications for judgment I do not know, but expert guidance from professional researchers. Sometimes I like the answer I get (breastfeeding good, go me!) Sometimes I don't (nursery not as good, boo). But I have no desire whatsoever to coccoon myself from any evidence that can feed into my parenting, whether I in my particular circumstances am able to act on it or not. Knowledge is always, always good. Suppressing it because it makes us feel bad or because we lack confidence is just not ok.

If women are getting shitty remarks from strangers in public, THAT is shaming and rude and fuck those people. If channel 4 do a documentary in which expert scientists give Thier opinions on the potential pros and cons of various methods of infant feeding, that is not shaming in any possible way, that is a discussion of the evidence. By all means argue with their position but don't insist that even taking a position as an expert is "shaming", it's as bad as the current situation where any economists who raise concerns about possible outcomes of Brexit are shouted down as treasonous Remoaners.

We need to encourage breastfeeding more in this country and give the support for those that want to.
Mums think it's so easy to FF and so hard to BF, some don't even try.
I don't like the sentence Fed is best. I think it's for FF mothers to not feel bad.
Everyone has a choice how to feed their baby but with the correct support and information they can make a different choice than they might have otherwise.
Breastfeeding is the most natural thing.

I absolutely loved breast feeding especially loved not having to faff around with bottles and hot water etc out in public

Everyone has a choice how to feed their baby but with the correct support and information they can make a different choice than they might have otherwise

That’s not quite true but I am sure you mean in the majority of cases. However, many more women don’t believe they have that choice or that they had to make a different choice because of outside factors.

It has been proven over and over again that judgement and shaming, whether real or perceived does not work. The pressure to be a ‘good mum’ is enormous. There is too much emotional baggage involved to think the answer is as simple as providing information on nutritional benefits.

@Namechangemum100

I'm sorry you had a hard time trying to breastfeed but, why are you watching this? You know it wasn't going to make you feel any better.

Facts aren't demonisation. They're just facts. Like gravity and the colour of the sky. They just are.

@thereareflowersinmygarden

I wasn't watching it to make myself feel better. I was watching out of interest, just because I don't breast feed doesn't mean I can't be interested (yet another example of being alienated for FF).

The "facts" I took issue with were the blatent supposed links to heart disease and cancer with no actual evidence of it.

@Ennirem I think some of the middle class guilt etc is caused by the message we're given by BFing promotion. I'm a middle class professional. I work in a world of SMART goals - where you have goals to achieve but they are meant to be achievable and you are meant to be provided with the tools to achieve that.

So, I saw the BFing goals - six months of EBF and keep BFing at least to two years. Breast is best! No mention of any possible problems (other than 'too much milk' ), it was all easy and natural as long as you fed within an hour of birth, didn't give bottles or dummies and fed on demand. Cluster feeding was a snuggly excuse to watch a box set. I fully expected to achieve those goals.

I did all the things, fed on demand, fed within 15 mins of birth, didn't use formula or a dummy. Result: seriously ill baby in SCBU. I then discover that those goals are hopelessly difficult to achieve for many women and most women aren't 'achieving' them but that was too late for the damage done to my mental health.

It is rather ironic that after all that angst I did 'achieve' the two year goal

I never speak to my NCT group about any parenting or relationship issues I am having without half the women in the group immediately attributing my troubles to my continued breastfeeding, however irrelevant to feeding the issue is.
Yes, I have found this for myself and for other women I know who have bf past 6 months or so...baby doesn't sleep well...it's because they're bf, baby is a perfectly normal but quite small size...it's because they're bf, baby doesn't like broccoli...it's because they're bf! I am sure that FF mothers are demonised too but I do feel there's a lot of vitriol and condemnation of extended bf.

Going to be controversial here... but the pressure is not to be a good mum..

(Hear me out)!

It's more complex than that. The pressure is to be an ok, conventional mum and fall back into the working/shagging/socialising/having it all life that you had pre-baby, as soon as possible.

It's all about getting your figure back, how soon you go back to work, when you get your sex life back, when you get to go and get pissed with your mates again... If you're not in a rush to do any of that, you're treated as a baby bore or seen as letting down your partner etc.

Very hard to establish breastfeeding and do all that as well.

No evidence? So why does the NHS encourage breastfeeding so much?

Do people really think they're doing it for no reason?

thereareflowersinmygarden
I have to say that I agree really! I was criticised for bf my 7mo by a practice nurse, had gone to discuss my section scar and she asked how my sex life was. When I joked that it was basically non existent (which is not a problem at all!) and she was not impressed, said that I'd make myself ill from continued breastfeeding and I needed to let DS cry it out! A number of people have been amazed that I haven't had a break from DS, it's just not seen as normal to put your life on hold for a while, which is fine of course, but not ok if those who do are criticised for it!

I agree but I don't see it as putting my life on hold.

It is your life- for a time.

Wow, long thread. I didn't watch, but may do now. Can anyone bring me up to speed on how the programme 'demonised' formula please? I see a lot of posters using that word, and am wondering how the programme did this. I saw an advert for the documentary but it seemed to be about breastfeeding support rather than formula from the clip I saw.

*I agree but I don't see it as putting my life on hold.

It is your life- for a time.*

Yes, you're absolutely right there...

Formula is the stuff of miracles, not bloody poison.
How many babies lives have been saved by formula, I don’t understand people’s problems. Fed is best, only just seen this saying on here, but I like it.

Ennirem
You are spot on about class. I live in a working class area. People just don't breastfeed in public here and if they do they would certainly cover up.

Same, and I also don't know why so many don't believe women who say they couldn't breastfeed. #trustwomen doesn't extend as far as trusting them to do their best to breastfeed, apparently.

I do trust that they were made to believe they couldn't breastfeed but I am very aware that the lack of support, good information and correct guidance is right. So whilst I trust that was there perception, I do not trust that the information and advice they were provided with was accurate and that it is likely that with the correct support they may well have been able to breastfeed.

For example. My friend told me that she couldn't breastfeed as her milk didn't come in until day 3 and baby therefore needed a bottle. When I told her that day 3 was pretty normal and babies were ok on colostrum until then (she asked how I'd got my milk to come in so quickly, I said it didn't until day 3 or 4 and she then said that happened to her and that therefore meant she couldn't bf) she was astounded. No one had told her she wouldn't instantly pour with milk once baby was born. She'd heard of colostrum but didn't know what it would look like or how much she should have - she may well have been able to breastfeed if she'd been given the right information. I didn't doubt she believed what she was saying, it was a case of the information she'd been given that caused that view was just wrong.

I agree but I don't see it as putting my life on hold.

It is your life- for a time.

but it's a shit life for that time!